rec.autos.simulators

I came to this conclusion after trying out Toca Race Driver 2, which is
marketed as V8 Supercars 2 in Australia.
IMHO The Graphics are very good, but the physics in Simulator mode are
extremely unrealistic. Too much grip, brakes too good etc.
The Pro Sim physics are just way over the top in the other direction. The
car handles like a Hovercraft. and that is probably being kind to it. I
found that the car is near impossible to drive in Pro Sim Mode.
I asked myself why this wasn't appealing, as GPL too was very hard to drive,
and yet people love it. I think that it must be because I just know that
driving a real V8 Supercar could not possibly be like driving this Sim in
Pro mode.
Back when GPL was born, most people that I knew that tried GPL thought that
a real 67 GP car would really handle like that. So everybody kept trying to
master driving GPL. And Yes, it was very satisfying, when you got it right.
Even Kaemmer himself, has said that he didn't get GPL right. Esp the grip..!
But who cares? We still had heaps of Fun with it. It has become a Legend.

I realise that most people hate it, but I have had a heap of fun with V8
Supercars 2 in Simulator mode. Even though the physics in Simulator mode are
way out, and I know it, there are still a heap of things about it that they
have got pretty right, eg the Online points, people get penalised for
leaving a race early. I came second in a race at Bathurst, and got 14
points, against the driver that was first who got 5 points because he
bounced off walls all the way around the track. Good drivers are rewarded.
It's Online performance is pretty good as well.
Just Try racing at Bathurst at around 1.46  It is real adrenaline pumping
stuff. Mt Panorama at Bathurst is one of the most challenging tracks that I
have ever raced on.

Yes I too would love to have the Perfect Sim. But at the moment I don't
think that it exists. Until then I will just have the most fun that I can
with the imperfect ones :-)

Darf

Alanb

  lol

It's perhaps the greatest Racing sim ever made.

The usual comments from the "don't get it"-crowd.

Jan.
=---

There never will be. Even full motion simulators have their limtations when
it comes to simulating race conditions.

I agree in as far as enjoying every title for what it is, however, I do have
reservations about certain claims made by developers, especially
Codemasters. I don't like the word "sim" associated with any of their racing
games.

Jan.
=---

  Whoosh........right over your head......as usual.

Oh, I get it all right.  The question has just been considered over and
over, since man realized time governs life.  That may be slight hyperbole,
but you get the idea, hopefully.

Alanb

Have you tried the GTR demo?  It's streets ahead of TRD2 in the realism
department.

GPL's tire model might be a bit lacking by today's standards but it still
has most of the fundamentals of driving a real 67 car pretty well simulated.
I reckon playing GPL is very beneficial for someone wanting to step into a
real racecar.  I can't say the same for TRD2 which is more likely to teach
you bad habits than most other respected sims.

Just taking a pot shot to show cronk how it's done, Alan... <g>

Jan.
=---

at

My Estimate would be about 30%

My Estimate for GPL would be about 80% IMHO

As I said it is not what I would call a Sim but it IS fun :-)

No I haven't but I will check it out

simulated.

You may have a point, my Business partner races Supercarts,

And has said that any game/sim including GPL teaches him bad habits that he
has to unlearn when he hops behind the wheel of a real race vehicle.

My "perfect sim" with today's technology would probably have the Nascar type
engine, including it's 30 car online abilities but with F1 or the old
Indycar Tracks with Modern F1 and Champ cars available. It would also
include most of the ideas used in the online concept of TRD2 / V8 Supercars
2. ie the rating systems, rewarding good driving etc.

Darf

Darf

first time i hopped behind the wheel of a single seater i was amazed at how
comfortable i felt following a few years of gpl.

nice to have less power and more grip in real life though :)

pez

Someone here once said it better than I ever could - you have to learn
to drive each sim's physics model and adapt to the flaws.
Unfortunately, that might teach you a couple of tricks that only work
_in_that_game and no other sims and don't work in real life.  (I use
Need For Speed for example - not a lot of that game teaches you proper
driving lines or anything other than speed=fun.)

No sim is perfect, and most people (even racers) wouldn't want to have
to go the last step for realism.

Examples:
Pause buttons.  Real races don't have pauses.
Save/load.
"Restart" if you crash.
Heat and confinement for the driver.  I sweated off 7 pounds and got
bruises on my shoulders this summer while racing.  I'm not doing that
playing a video game.  When I'm strapped in my Camaro, I can't see my
feet or barely turn my head.  My buddy's Formula V - he's basically
lying down on the floor when he's racing...
Money & Fear of death - you can do a lot of stupid things in a video
game that'll be "hero or zero" moves - but you shouldn't do in a real
race (unless you're Robby Gordon, then you can do a lot of stupid things
in a real race car.)

I've found sim race cars are a LOT more durable than real race cars.  In
F1 racing, contact = broken.  In dirt racing, contact=black flag.

After all that whining, I'd say that playing driving games CAN help you
in a real race car - If you play driving games that mimic real life (GPL
vs Need for Speed) and use it to learn HOW to drive faster... (Drive to
Win, Physics of Racing, and many other books and driving schools.)

Ray

Darf