rec.autos.simulators

        Video, like I said, just needs a client application to translate the
replay as it comes in.  The bandwidth would be a problem for 33.6
modems, but for T1,T3,ADLS,Cable.. still a problem but not nearly as big
a problem as a 33.6 or 56k's.

        You have the right idea but are going at it the wrong way (imo).
Currently, all that's needed is a client that's able to view the replay
in real time. Cost? If MS does it... then it's mucho dollars.  If
someone such as me does it.. $0.00.  I'll even give you a loan at 1.0%
interest to buy it;-)

        Once the client is built, It's a matter of having a Sim that will send
the server replay out to another client and not expect anything back
from that client. We already know that the full replay is being sent by
the server to those that are out of the race.  Watch a GPL race as the
18th driver.  Don't run in the race, but just watch the race.  You can
see all the cars. (BTW:  I've noticed a whole lot less warping in F3
races then F1 races.  Don't ask why because I don't know, but that's
what I've noticed)

        Since we know the replay can be sent out and sent to a specific client
already, we just need to have that replay client be able to send the
replay out to other clients to view.  At the very most, maybe send that
replay from the replay client out to 3 other clients.  The have everyone
that wants to view it, connect to any one of those clients.

        So, We know it is possible with out a doubt.  It's just that we need
that client application first.

        If we were to start out with having the ability to watch a replay
"live", the next step would be to have someone figure out how to make
money off of it.  Nothing says that money even has to be made!  Someone
will eventually figure out how to make money off of it.  We just have to
get the ball rolling for such a concept to work in the first place.
--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

The business model is what's askew. I already own GPL; I can already view
the replays, or drop in on a race to see it live. VROC can double or triple
(at least) its traffic by providing live feeds from races, without clogging
the race with non-participants. So far, so good. However, there is only a
very limited pool of GPL fans to support this.

There are two reasons to to make this effort. The first is some added
entertainment value for us, the knowledgable kibbitzers. The second is
profit motive. The added entertainment value is small. VROC might realize
some revenue from banner ads if this takes off. I expect it will, but only
on a very small scale, certainly no larger than the existing group of online
racers. The revenues won't cover the effort and expense of the changes
required. It won't appeal to the masses, since the average-Joe has to make a
big investment -- in download time and suitable equipment, not just
dollars -- before even viewing the first race. This is why I suggest
streaming video. Even this is inadequate, as realistic bandwidth only allows
a very low resolution display, which is probably worst than nothing at all.
The GPL demo acts a free viewer of sorts, but only works for races at Monza
and the Glen. In any case, it has to appeal to the average person cruising
the web for something new and exciting. He should be able to drop in on
VROC, peek in on a few races, and then get e***d and then get involved.
The larger the investment he has to make -- download time or real dollars --
the smaller your potential audience. In terms of growing the market, viewing
live races on your PC, via the internet, on your licensed copy of GPL,
doesn't do diddly.

If you're bent on doing this, I would suggest taping a race season from your
own display. My Voodoo3 does a very good job of this, BTW, at 36 fps and
full screen resolution. Try to get airtime on local public access cable TV
channels. This bypasses the equipment and bandwidth issues altogether. You
need to build an audience, and then point them to where the replay viewers
can be downloaded, and where the races can be viewed. Who knows; ESPN or
some mainstream channel might pick up on it. After you build an audience,
GPL might do well enough to support further development, enhancing our
experience. But none of this will happen without expanding the audience we
already have. And it won't put a dime into your pocket, even though I might
feel some gratitude for your having made the effort.

Michael.

        You didn't read the other posts.  It doesn't have to be GPL.. NASCAR is
a whole lot bigger in the States then is GPL.  so, why not do something
like this for the NASCAR Sims?  get the picture?  doesn't have to be GPL
that starts it, nor does it have to be GPL that's exclusive.  There are
many different sims out there that could benefit more so then GPL just
for the same reason you mention.. Not to many fans of old racing.

        Again, you didn't read..  Nothing says that money has to be made
anywhere.  second, if there was an application that could do this, It
would be used by a wide range of GPL drivers (or NASCAR drivers, or
ect.. depending on the Sim it's made for).

        As far as TV coverage?  It doesn't have to go that far, although it
would be nice ;-)  If someone were to build such an application it could
go anywhere, or it could die right out.  There's only one way to find
out and that's to find someone that would know how to build such a
thing.

        Either way it ends up going,  It would be used by a lot of people.
Either by the drivers them selves or by...??  Can't say it will never
happen or that it would be a waste till it actually exists in the first
place.

--
=========================================
Mike Barlow of Barlow Racing?
=========================================
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Racing online with the help of......

Race Communications Association
Holodyne Engineering
Mystic Music
(have Your !!Name/Address!! placed here)

Ooh, you're very much on the wrong track here, I think. Streaming video is
MUCH, MUCH more bandwidth-critical. Like a factor 100!! DON'T go there!

You HAVE to use GPL for calculating the video image from the raw
car-positioning data!

Yes, you're right. Doing it for the love of it is fine. However, NASCAR!?!?
Blahhh! :-)  I personally abhor it, but it has the best chance to succeed,
given that it's closer to the common-man's cognitive awareness. I still
recall my first reaction to GPL: "But why? I wish they had modeled something
else."

Sure, I can agree with all that. There is value in allowing drop-in
spectators in online races. I might drop in and watch a few races, along
with everyone already here reading this newsgroup. I might even learn a few
things riding along with the leaders. As a participant, I might get a small
charge from knowing that someone out there might have watched the dueling,
recognizing, understanding, sharing, and enjoying the brilliant moments that
they were.

The trouble is that it doesn't reach outside our small group. We can already
view any race simply by having bought the game. It won't reach the regular
guy, the guy who is a racecar sim'er, but doesn't know it yet. The $250 that
stays in his pocket isn't doing any of us any good, except maybe him. It doe
sn't help pay for the next version of GPL, or help push hardware to the next
level. I think maybe that's the difference. You want only to race with him
someday; I want his wallet. :-)

All yammering aside, what you're suggesting is easily possible. The next
step -- widespread appeal -- takes effort, commitment, and money. The
payoffs can be big for all of us, and especially for the sponsoring body. It
can also fall flat, especially for the sponsoring body. That's why you're
farther ahead in your thinking than I am: just skip the step that probably
won't pay at all, and settle for the eventual aftermath. It works for me; I
don't have ten years and a deep pocket to make it a reality. And if I did, I
would probably spend it on something else just as worthwhile, with a better
chance for payoff.

Michael.