Marc Surer was on a German F1 TV show this weekend. They had set
up a nice little virtual***pit with seat, pedals, head restraints
and wheel with paddle shifters. Up on the big screen was F1RS.
Surer's face was a picture of steely concentration. He spun
twice in his first out lap. I guess we sim drivers aren't so
bad at what we do...
Keith.
> > Marc Surer was on a German F1 TV show this weekend. They had set
> > up a nice little virtual***pit with seat, pedals, head restraints
> > and wheel with paddle shifters. Up on the big screen was F1RS.
> > Surer's face was a picture of steely concentration. He spun
> > twice in his first out lap. I guess we sim drivers aren't so
> > bad at what we do...
MarkH
:
: > Marc Surer was on a German F1 TV show this weekend. They had set
: > up a nice little virtual***pit with seat, pedals, head restraints
: > and wheel with paddle shifters. Up on the big screen was F1RS.
: > Surer's face was a picture of steely concentration. He spun
: > twice in his first out lap. I guess we sim drivers aren't so
: > bad at what we do...
:
:
:
: I remember seeing Marc Surer at the 1983 Belgium GP, driving the Arrows
: car like a rally car in the wet conditions. When was the last time you
: saw a GP car in a power oversteer through La Source? Quite a driver.
: Keep in mind that F1RS has some serious shortcomings as a simulation,
: but it is a lot of fun with great graphics.
:
:
: Keith.
:
My note was, of course, tongue in cheek. I know very well what sort
of driver Surer is. Generally, most "real" drivers do very poorly
when given a computer game to play around with. The BTCC drivers
can't do well with TOCA, Villeneuve qualified a lowly 18th at Spa
in GP2 etc. etc. Probably a good indication that these are all only
games, and we should stop bickering over which is the most accurate sim.
SF
Hi,
you really made me laugh at the last sentence :)
Ofcourse we're good when we spend hours playing games like that. But
we're playing games, if one spins out at 200kmh corner, he just simply
reloads and heads for another lap. Unfortunately, F1 drivers can't do
that ;-) And this may also be the reason why Schumacher or any other good
driver probably would be one of the backmarkers in F1RS or some other sim.
I would just like to know how many times would you spin out on your first
lap out of pits in a real F1 car if you would get a drive. Playing a game
(simulation) is on thing, driving F1 car is another. F1 racer get's
feedback from the car, g-forces, etc. whilst you can't feels such things
with a simulation. No wonder he spun twice. Drivers usually don't listen
(I may be wrong here) to the sound but rather rely on their experience
and the feel they have while being behind the wheel. The only feedback
you get in a sim is a sound and (sometimes) a nice graphics (brake smoke).
Nowdays force-feedback is introduced into sim games, which may help a bit
though.
P.S.: Go out and borrow some gokart and turn some laps. Then go back home
and run Virtual Karts or something like that. You may be amazed by the
difference of input you get from actual driving and a game running on you
computer.
Regards,
Tadej Krevh
> :
> : > Marc Surer was on a German F1 TV show this weekend. They had set
> : > up a nice little virtual***pit with seat, pedals, head restraints
> : > and wheel with paddle shifters. Up on the big screen was F1RS.
> : > Surer's face was a picture of steely concentration. He spun
> : > twice in his first out lap. I guess we sim drivers aren't so
> : > bad at what we do...
> :
> :
> :
> : I remember seeing Marc Surer at the 1983 Belgium GP, driving the Arrows
> : car like a rally car in the wet conditions. When was the last time you
> : saw a GP car in a power oversteer through La Source? Quite a driver.
> : Keep in mind that F1RS has some serious shortcomings as a simulation,
> : but it is a lot of fun with great graphics.
> :
> :
> : Keith.
> :
> My note was, of course, tongue in cheek. I know very well what sort
> of driver Surer is. Generally, most "real" drivers do very poorly
> when given a computer game to play around with. The BTCC drivers
> can't do well with TOCA, Villeneuve qualified a lowly 18th at Spa
> in GP2 etc. etc. Probably a good indication that these are all only
> games, and we should stop bickering over which is the most accurate sim.
> SF
In real terms there is no advantage to be gained in having experienced
the situatuion being simulated so the guys who have tried the sims are
in the same position as all of us were at one point - having never seen
the game. In reality these guys may be slightly better than your
average sim rookie by virtue of having good reactions and inherent
instincts of what to do when the car gets sideways.
R:
True and I believe that all sims make the driving to hairy in their sims
compared to the real mcoy. I know I can drive a real Nascar around a
track (not as fast as a pro grant you) but keep it steady and under
control the first time out. You give me joe schmo off the street and I
put him in any sim game and he's going to look like a drunken fool in
any sim you pick for several laps. The closest thing in my book (jaded
as it is) is Nascar Arcade, that car sticks much more to the track like
the real ones. I can take the schmo's to our place and put them in the
game and after a few laps they can race and have some fun!!! If a sim
was like real driving nobody would survive out there...
Only a very very few games imo have captured the sense of control well
and all could be better by a ton yet. But I'll make due. :)
Q.B.M.
: Marc Surer was on a German F1 TV show this weekend. They had set
: up a nice little virtual***pit with seat, pedals, head restraints
: and wheel with paddle shifters. Up on the big screen was F1RS.
: Surer's face was a picture of steely concentration. He spun
: twice in his first out lap. I guess we sim drivers aren't so
: bad at what we do...
To those who had a chuckle at my last line, and recognized
the intent, you can skip on to the next thread. To those who
felt I had made a personal attack on Mr. Surer, or who thought
that I was equating sim driving to real driving, perhaps you
could tell me which version of a "smiley" I need to emphasize
irony. I'm sure Surer's pre*** thought was "what a silly
game". Until someone starts shaking the tub around, it
doesn't simulate the *most important* stimulus that drivers
rely on. Having driven a fair number of winter rallies in
various FWD and RWD cars, I know that you drive with your ass.
regards
Stephen
How can you see where you're going if you're driving "with
your ass" ??!!??
John
--
John Hartridge | FUJIFILM Electronic Imaging Ltd
Senior Software Engineer | Three Cherry Trees Lane,
Internal phone 3282 | Hert HP2 7RH
On 17 Mar 1998 11:10:55 GMT, "John Hartridge"
>How can you see where you're going if you're driving "with
>your ass" ??!!??
>John
I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that the winter rallies are
conducted with both a driver and co-driver in the car. So Steve is
likely referring to his teammate... Although I can't see for the life
of me how his remarks benefit team morale! ;)
Regards,
Dave
says...
Maybe this is why I'm so one eyed when discussing collisions...
Brian
>John
>--
>John Hartridge | FUJIFILM Electronic Imaging Ltd
>Senior Software Engineer | Three Cherry Trees Lane,
>Internal phone 3282 | Hert HP2 7RH
: On 17 Mar 1998 11:10:55 GMT, "John Hartridge"
:
: >> rely on. Having driven a fair number of winter rallies in
: >> various FWD and RWD cars, I know that you drive with your ass.
: >>
: >
: >How can you see where you're going if you're driving "with
: >your ass" ??!!??
: >
: >John
:
: John,
:
: I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that the winter rallies are
: conducted with both a driver and co-driver in the car. So Steve is
: likely referring to his teammate... Although I can't see for the life
: of me how his remarks benefit team morale! ;)
:
: Regards,
:
: Dave
You've obviously met my co-driver :)
Stephen
Ok ok, so the *** has started ;)
--
Dave Bowers
I'd be willing to bet that my analysis would prove to be right on if
tested. Sims are great for developing many racing skills, but only
seat time can improve your overall sense of driving at the limit.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
Well I raced before sim games were out and I still did well once I started
playing sim games. I agree that you are robbed of your sense of acceleration
but the principles are still the same.
Thanks
John
+AD4-
+AD4APg-My note was, of course, tongue in cheek. I know very well what sort
+AD4APg-of driver Surer is. Generally, most +ACI-real+ACI- drivers do very poorly
+AD4APg-when given a computer game to play around with. The BTCC drivers
+AD4APg-can't do well with TOCA, Villeneuve qualified a lowly 18th at Spa
+AD4APg-in GP2 etc. etc. Probably a good indication that these are all only
+AD4APg-games, and we should stop bickering over which is the most accurate sim.
+AD4-
+AD4-I don't think that's the point at all. The reason these drivers don't
+AD4-do as well in sims is that we've robbed them of their most valuable
+AD4-senses for sampling traction. They get nothing from the wheel, from
+AD4-their rear end, or from their inner ear, and yet they sit down and try
+AD4-anyway. Think of it this way...if you're blind, you'll develop keener
+AD4-senses of hearing and smell to compensate, because you're missing
+AD4-visual senses. I think we in the sim world are in the same space. We
+AD4-do very well when deprived of the senses of a race car driver because
+AD4-we've never had them. REAL drivers have them and depend upon them,
+AD4-and suddenly they cannot FEEL the car the way they do in real life, so
+AD4-they lose traction.
+AD4-
+AD4-I'd be willing to bet that my analysis would prove to be right on if
+AD4-tested. Sims are great for developing many racing skills, but only
+AD4-seat time can improve your overall sense of driving at the limit.
+AD4-
+AD4-Randy
+AD4-Randy Magruder
+AD4-Contributing Reviewer
+AD4-Digital Sportspage
+AD4-http://www.digitalsports.com
+AD4-
