rec.autos.simulators

So come on guys, a bit of encouragement for Broadsword may help them produce
better simms in the future. And comparing SoS1937 with a Vic20 game is shear
ludicrous!

As simmers we all want good pure sims. But this is the real world where if you
don't make it commercially you lose the best programmers to other fields
(arcades for instance). Buying SoS1937 will provide valuable resources for
Broadsword to continue their work.
Lets face it..the product is worth buying just to drive the great old circuits.
There is no other sim of this period.
On this newsgroup there are too many 'put you down' types and not enough praise
to encourage developers to move on.
Take the moaning about the latest 'leaked' patch for GPL. I should think Papy
are pretty sick of the 'Brat Pack' on this newsgroup.

Anyway these are my thoughts,
Alan

NOTE I am in no way involved with Broadsword or Microprose and am voicing my
opinions completely independantly

Selected quotes:

Are we debating the qualities of the actual demo or what?

No, it will send the message that we really like this piece of crap.

I would like to recommend some other line of work for them.
I don't care if it's supposed to be arcade or sim. It's useless either way.
Going by the demo this will be a commercial fiasco that will make GPL look
like the success it deserve to be.

circuits.

The demo gives me no sense of driving, at all!

There is no sim of this period.

We are paying customers, not cheerleaders.

You could have fooled me :-)

/ / Rolf

Indy 500 Christmas 1989, Indycar late 1993

Hmmm... should we really be comparing 1999 titles with these - I don't think
so. Why would anybody buy a title to a standard of a bygone age. I don't
understand your logic. This is a serious attempt at competing with the
latest releases of Sims or even arcade racers.

Its title suggest it would appeal to enthusiasts not an arcade racer.

Ok lets compare it to Indy 500 for the Amiga then - oh you already have

Tony

This is 1999. We have been stunned by sims like GP 2 and GPL, and even some
arcadish games of the last years could please me for a couple of hours.
BUT THIS? This is an absolute insult to sim and or arcade enthusiasts. I
have seen a picture of the devoloping team standing nearby the sea. That
must have done them in. Sunbathing, surfing, making nice walks along the
beaches. I mean, they couldn't possibly have spent serious time on this
monster. Have they seen GPL anyways. They can't have, otherwise they
wouldn't have dared giving labour to this #%$#$^&#$*$.

Shame on them, and on Microprose and hasbro for trying to rip off decent
customers.

Hielke

Were not spoilt..we have standards. There is a SHOCKING lack of quality
racing simulators.  Let's face it...GP1, GP2, GPL...that's about it as
far as I can see.

As of yet...nothing. GPL is GPL..but that's because it's a one off.

So what - a decade has past. Frankly, if from Indy500 to SOS'37 is
progress, we've as good as gone backwards.

No, it's because the market for ***Y difficult racing sims is quite
small (as demonstrated by GPL).  If more people took the Crammond
approach of making the game accessable for the less-skilled / rehersed /
practised..then there would be a better market for racing sims.

As aforementioned... GPL didn't sell very well, a clone / add-on pack /
altered version wouldn't sell well either.

I don't see Sierra/Papy using the GPL engine. It was a one off..it made
them no money, frankly they got burned.

Exactly...we're still waiting

So, they've written a 1937 game in the style of an arcade, KNOWING
arcade lovers are not going to buy it. That makes NO SENSE.

That's what were were hoping might have happened - a little closer to
GPL

NO - GPL is the industry standard for Racing Simulations. One can expect
ANYTHING to be compared with it. Frankly..GPL is what...18 months old
now...in that time, we've seen the advent of Athlon, Voodoo 3, it's time
something AS GOOD, but maximising the updated technology.

I am not a charity. I will NOT buy this piece of utter CRAP, because
then Broadsword will fold up and never make any more CRAP.

That's something that we can do by writting them ourselves in GPL and
GP2.

THere is no sim of this period. It belongs with empty pizza boxes and
napkins..IN THE BIN.

We should not be encouraging them. We should criticise the appauling
effort made by Broadsword. I'm supprised Microprose even put their name
to it...this is published by the people who will bring us GP3
people...I'm nervous.

We're fairly sick of Papy to. They've completely IGNORED US. The first
patch was a minor improvement. Why they had to change the ride height
thing I do not know..but the FF is reasonable (not as good as TOCA 2's
FF..that's how it SHOULD be done)

You're intitled to them...but I don't agree with them. Now run off and
play SOS 1937, I'm playing GP2 and TOCA 2 with some friends today.

And enclosed are my thought...
DOug

Alan, count me in your corner. I actually like the demo and will definetly
buy the full game when it comes out. It all comes down to one thing.It is
fun to me . I don't care what everyone else thinks . The only person that it
has to entertain is ME. So that is all that what matters. As for the rest of
you.....are you sure you are giving it a chance?? I have read about people
running 4 laps and deleting it from their hard drive. 4 LAPS !!! Give me a
break. When the first GPL demo came out I hated it too. Why would I want to
buy a game where you can't even copmlete a lap without spinning off the
track 10 times. I am glad I gave it enough time to LEARN HOW TO DRIVE IT.
Maybe thats whats needed here.

Thanks, Doug for the suport.
Mentioned earlier in this thread was building tracks of that era for GPL.
Seeing how difficult it is to build third party track for GPL I don't see this
as feesable in the near future. Even the Brands Hatch track was lacking in
places.
I think what the sim world needs is racing enthusiasts who are also good
programmers who can hobby this sim world into existence.
If GPL remains a 'one off' then the future looks bleak for simmers considering
the fast moving technological world of computers!
I think Broadsword is caught between a rock and a hard place and not knowing
what to do for the best for a racing era that they obviously are interested in
have compromised enormously.
If they have broad shoulders enough to accept the criticism of this news group
it may encourage them to reconsider this project.
I wish them luck!
Alan

What the heck are you saying ? Your talking about the million-selling Nascar
Racing 1, one of the most revolutionnary game ever ?  Why the Papy bashing
to get a point for that crappy SOS title ? It's unecessary

Sure we understand that !!!!! But you expect us to just shut up and don't
try to push software developpers to make it more realistic ?  The whole
point about dumbing down is pretty amazing.  Why couldn't you just create an
"arcade" mode and a "hard-core simulation" mode.  It is the only way to
satisfy everybody.  Look at N2 or N3 to see that at the best.

A racing game is a racing game is a racing game.  That's not an excuse for a
racing game they ADVERTISED as a hard-core simulation.  What you need to
understand is that we don't give a darn about arcade games.  If they hype a
arcade game as an arcade game, it's ok for us.  But when they hype a game as
a simulation and it turns out to be an arcade game, we get mad and grow
teeth like vampires haha ;)

There is no need for us to encourage arcade-game developpers.  We simply
want racing simulations, as you saw.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I like arcade games. Play 'em more than GPL to be honest. I find the
SOS demo to be a very poor arcade game, do mostly to the hopelessly
poor steering wheel input and driving model.

Ah, that was me I think. ;-)   But seriously - I could keep the Vic-20
car on the track.

Joe McGinn
==========================================
Staff Writer for the Sports *** Network
http://www.racesimcentral.net/***.com/
==========================================

Hmm... TOCA 2's FF is pretty good but saying it is better than GPL's is
taking it more than a bit too far IMHO.

Although I agree with everything else you said :-)

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

Much of *your* post was Papy bashing....

--
Cheers!
Graeme Nash

I personally actually prefer Papyrus's old Indianapolis 500: The Simulation
over the Spirit of Speed '37 demo.  It's a hell of a lot more fun.  But that's
just my opinion.

Dan Belcher
Team Racing Unlimited
http://members.xoom.com/simcrash1/simcrash

It's very weird but I agree.  Still it has it's problems, like automatic
gear setting changes "on the fly" while on track ;)   .  Still never
finished a 200lapper!

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."