rec.autos.simulators

Cue evil laugh!

Well, I decided to go out and buy my Guillemot/Thrustmaster Ferrari FF Wheel
today, 2-3 weeks earlier than I intended. I couldn't wait any longer :) My
gosh, I'm like a kid with a new toy! I really should start acting my age you
know ;) (36). I had to go out a bit today though so I have only had about an
hour with it :( After writing this I am off to give it a good testing! It
sure is a strange feeling, going from a 3 year old, worn out, thrustmaster
sprint, to this magnificent beast :D What a difference! I can now actually
steer with "accuracy", for a change! I would like some help with core.ini FF
setting from fellow Ferrari wheel users please. If you would be kind enough
to tell me the lines you have under [Joy], and why you prefer these settings
in particular, I would be most grateful. Here are mine as they stand right
now, after a bit of fiddling around.

[ Joy ]
allow_force_feedback = 1                 ; Use FF if device has it
force_feedback_damping = 2.000000       ; force feedback damping coefficient
force_feedback_latency = 0.020000        ; force feedback latency (secs)
max_steering_torque = 200.000000         ; steering torque in N*in giving
max device force

These settings I found in a message on RAS, but as I said, I have not had
much time to test anything else out. Also, if you decide not to use FF for
GPL, or any other sim/game, can the "motor" and other FF hardware inside get
damaged, or wear out quicker etc? Another thing, the two paddles UNDER the
ones marked up/down, which I of course use for gear changing, what are they
for? They don't seem to do anything at all! They don't even do anything in
the Thrustmaster/I-Force software :( Anyone know about these? Please tell me
ALL the best settings etc you folks use, so I may try them all out and see
what suits me best :) Obviously, my main concern is the BEST drivable
effects and stability for our beloved GPL. Throw in anything else you can
think may be helpful too please, such as Driver releases etc? Anything :)

BTW, when I first installed the wheel and software, I dived straight to GPL
to try it out, expecting this great kinda wheel shaking/vibrating stuff!
(Never tried FF before today at all!). Went to drive and noticed NO FF
EFFECTS at all, and thought, oh yeah, here we go! I discovered MUCH later
that I had forgotten to chang the line in core.ini to = 1, to allow Force
Feedback. DOH! :)

Thank you very much for your suggestions and help,

Mad Max.

Here we go-

[ Joy ]
allow_force_feedback = 1                 ; Use FF if device has it
force_feedback_damping = 5.000000        ; force feedback damping
coefficient
force_feedback_latency = 0.035000        ; force feedback latency (secs)
max_steering_torque = 300.000000         ; steering torque in N*in giving
max device force

from my core.ini.  Then in the settings for the wheel -

Operate Pedals Seperately = ON (this give you split axis pedals)

Gain Settings
~~~~~~~~~
Overall Device Gain = 90%
Spring Gain = 0 % (very important, stopped a problem I was getting where the
FF went limp after a few minutes)
Damper Gain = 100%
Default Spring = 13%
The other two boxes on the 'Gain Settings' page both OFF (they are - "always
on" for default spring, and "Map Fore-Alt-forces to Right-Left forces", I
have both turned off).

And I have the steering linearity slider bar just left of centre (in GPL
options).

That's em all, good luck :)

Thank you for your quick response Simon. I will be giving them a try right
away! One thing I noticed earlier though. This afternoon, I only had time to
try Monza and Le Mans Sarthe. Both tracks worked ok with the wheel. However,
I just tried "The Ring" before connecting, and I crashed back to the desktop
after just a little way down the track, (once the steering wheel was in full
lock right!)   :( Any ideas? I did NOT re-calibrate in GPL since this
afternoon at MZA and Le Mans. Would that be it, or is it the [Joy] settings
in core.ini I mentioned earlier that I tried?

Mad Max  :-)

The paddles below the shifters can be used *instead* of the foot pedals. If
you want to use them instead then unplug the pedals from the wheel. I guess
this would be quite useful for people that don't have the real estate for
pedals or can't use pedals for some other reason.

Cheers
Hamish

I believe those extra paddles work when the foot pedals are not plugged
in, although I have never tried it.  They might come in handy when you
buy the USB Clutch pedal set from Act-Labs ;)

I didn't change my FF settings from the GPL default and all works pretty
good.  I might try changing the latency to 0.0 to stop the sudden force
switching though.

Overall the TM-FF rocks for it's great feeling wheel, splix axis, paddle
shifters, auto-calibration, and USB support!!

Jason.

--
Jason Monds
http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (N4, GPL, Fun Run Sims)
http://www.racersdomain.com  - Race hosting.
(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Send me an email Max.. I went from the TM Sprint to a TSW2 & back to the
Sprint. Now a year+ with the Guillemot/Thrustmaster Ferrari FF Wheel and I
have 2 of them! I'd get a 3rd if I could afford another!  Thats how much I
like
them!! Just read the info for the control panel "game controller" applet.
This is
where I do most of my changes for different sims but you will need lines in
the
core.ini for GPL.. Enjoy!!! Thom_j.

| Cue evil laugh!
|
| Well, I decided to go out and buy my Guillemot/Thrustmaster Ferrari FF
Wheel
<snipped>
| Thank you very much for your suggestions and help,
|
| Mad Max.
|
|

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Hmm...that is strange, i've had three different FF wheels and none of them
have caused any crashes yet.  My Guillemot wheel and GPL are both stable
with those settings I posted.  To be honest, i'd be very surprised if the
core.ini settings for FF could cause a crash anyway.

Just on calibration, you don't need to re-calibrate, *but* make sure you
turn the wheel on before you run GPL, or GPL will make you re-calibrate,
which is a tiresome process.

The actual wheel doesn't store minimum and maximum values for each axis
after it's switched off and back on, so until each axis has moved to either
extent (ie over it's entire range of movement), the positions won't be
reported correctly.  This is just because the wheel has auto-calibration,
which all FF wheels have, which means it constantly records new max and min
values.

All this means is that when you get onto the track, you'll want to move the
wheel to either end and press both pedals fully, then you're ready to go.

As for why it might have crashed, hard to say really.  Give it a few hours
and see if it's a recurring problem.

Well this is one way Max.. Try Simon's setup as they will get you going
& mine are a bit different but 'everyone drives' and wants the feel of the
wheel differently.. So these are good!! Nice info Simon..
Cheers Thom_j.

| Here we go-
|
| [ Joy ]
| allow_force_feedback = 1                 ; Use FF if device has it
| force_feedback_damping = 5.000000        ; force feedback damping
| coefficient
| force_feedback_latency = 0.035000        ; force feedback latency (secs)
| max_steering_torque = 300.000000         ; steering torque in N*in giving
| max device force
|
| from my core.ini.  Then in the settings for the wheel -
|
| Operate Pedals Seperately = ON (this give you split axis pedals)
|
| Gain Settings
| ~~~~~~~~~
| Overall Device Gain = 90%
| Spring Gain = 0 % (very important, stopped a problem I was getting where
the
| FF went limp after a few minutes)
| Damper Gain = 100%
| Default Spring = 13%
| The other two boxes on the 'Gain Settings' page both OFF (they are -
"always
| on" for default spring, and "Map Fore-Alt-forces to Right-Left forces", I
| have both turned off).
|
| And I have the steering linearity slider bar just left of centre (in GPL
| options).
|
| That's em all, good luck :)
|


| >
| <snip>
| >
| > Mad Max.
|
|

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[Joy]
allow_force_feedback = 1
force_feedback_damping = 100.0
force_feedback_latency = 0.03
max_steering_torque = 600.0

[Hack]
steer_ratio = 0         ; to keep steering ratio constant in slow corners

Hack is not a part of force feedback setup, but after
I've started to use Ferrari FF I've found that I like more
without that hack, almost linear steering and steering ratio 11:1
or 12:1.

Those 2 paddles can be used instead of pedals if they're
unplugged, or if you have another pedal set, you can use [left]
paddle as a clutch.

Alex
(alexti)

Wow, I had no idea so many ppl here used this wheel.  I've had it for 6
months now and it has done me pretty darn good.  For the first week I
thought there was something wrong with it, 'cuz I would calibrate and my car
would be all over the track.  What you have to do is turn your machine on,
turn the wheel from lock to lock, THEN run the game and calibrate.  After
that, each time you reboot, you just need to remember to turn the wheel from
lock to lock.  It also took me awhile to get used to the feel of the wheel -
keep practicing and it'll come.

I use CH Pedals and have unplugged the pedals for my Ferrari wheel, so I can
use the bottom paddles as a cluch.  Works great in F1RC, where the automatic
clutch sucks.

With regards to GPL FF settings - here is an excellent explanation of what
the settings mean, by Chris Lee.  Using this, you can adjust to your taste.

Good luck!

    -Phasor

Now, this is an explanation I wholeheartedly agree with ;)!

-Gregor

Daggit Phasor I just sent a post asking how the settings were setup
via all these latency, damper spring #s etc and you post this..lol
Hey Gregor Veble!!! If ithis is close enough then you dont have to
send a post!!! Ok??? :-) If you have more to add please Do!!!
Also thanx for the info from "Ambulater" Phasor! All these setting
values will probably drive me wacky before I find a better one or
maybe I wont?...lol Thom_j.

| > This is what I use with my ACT-LABS wheel:
| >
| > [ Joy ]
| > allow_force_feedback = 1
| > force_feedback_damping = 350.0
| > force_feedback_latency = 0.025
| > max_steering_torque = 300.0
| >
| > LATENCY:
| > I determined the latency by driving over curbs repeatedly and adjusting
| the
| > value until all four wheels produced individual FF effects in sync with
| what
| > I was seeing from an outside view of the car.
| >
| > MAX STEERING TORQUE:
| > This is an interesting one.  This is not actually the maximum torque
your
| > wheel will produce, but is instead the *THRESHOLD* at which your wheel
| > produces it's maximum force.  Let's just pick some numbers out of the
air
| to
| > illustrate this.  Let's say the GPL software models the torque of
shifting
| > at high revs at 50N, fish-tailing through a corner at 200N, and a
complete
| > wipe out at 300N.  If you were to set your max steering torque threshold
| at
| > "50"  all of these effects would be equally powerful as all would
produce
| > the maximum amount of torque possible.  So if you set this threshold
value
| > too low the car is virtually undrivable and there is little distinction
| > between the various forces.  If however you set the value to 300 you'll
| feel
| > a marked gradation between these 3 very different effects.  If you set
| this
| > threshold value too high (say 2000), you'll lose all steering torque
| > altogether as no steering torque force will ever reach the threshold to
| > trigger the max effect.  So how do you set this?  First set damping in
| both
| > the controller panel and core.ini to 0.  We don't want to mess with that
| > right now.  From a dead stop take your hands off the wheel then
gradually
| > accelerate.  If the forward momentum of the car very gradually brings
the
| > front wheels (and steering wheel) into forward alignment (as in a real
car
| > with manual steering) then you've got the threshold value just about
| right.
| > If the front wheels (and steering wheel) do not center and your car just
| > continues in a perpetual circle, then the threshold value is too high.
If
| > the wheel suddenly snaps to center and or see-saws ***ly, then you
| have
| > the threshold set too low.  Adjusting the threshold to level that just
| > barely produces a centering effect at low speeds will result in a very
| > drivable car and nice subtle tactile inputs that will cue you as to the
| > status of your vehicle.  Now here is the part that really throws people:
| > the Max Steering Torque threshold *ONLY* affects *STEERING TORQUE FORCE*
| or
| > the forces related to engine torque, torque caused by maneuvering
through
| > corners, wheel centering torque, etc.  It does *NOT* affect any of the
| > forces related to crashing into guardrails or driving on grass.  For
some
| > odd reason these are affected by damping.
| >
| > DAMPING:
| > This does in fact do what it says.  It causes increased "friction" or
| > "viscosity" in the movement of the wheel and therefore also tends to
| lessen
| > some effect spikes.  Now the really odd thing is, as you increase the
| > damping value and the friction on the wheel, you also increase the
forces
| > felt when driving on grass or slamming into rails.  I recommend
adjusting
| > this value just high enough to just barely feel a subtle difference
| between
| > pavement and grass when one single wheel drops off the road.  Using this
| as
| > a guide you'll be able to tell with your eyes closed if all four wheels
| are
| > on the road, hitting curbs will feel realistic, guard rails will give
you
| a
| > jolt but usually allow you to correct, and the wheel will not be so
tight
| > that you begin to lose torque effects.  The key to good driving and
useful
| > tactile information is subtlety in each of these settings.  GPL is not
an
| > arcade game.
| >
| > Finally, I have the force effects in my controller applet at 100% and
| > dampening effects to 0% (you've already adjusted this in the core.ini
and
| > adding more damping in the controller panel will just result in reduced
| > subtlety in effects).  I use full linear steering in GPL and a steering
| > ratio of 15:1. (these latter two things are purely a matter of taste,
but
| > may effect the way you feel the forces at work in your wheel or at least
| the
| > way your car responds as torque is placed on the wheel).
| >
| > Hope this helps.
| > --
| > Chris "Ambulater" Lee
|
|

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:)

That's exactly what I would write, if I knew how to write. :) Also, I
didn't realize the dampening also controls the jerks, so I might need to
invest some more time into that as well.

-Gregor

Hi Folks,
Thank you very much one and all for all the excellent information. Much
appreciated! Now I can try out the various settings and suggestions you have
shown me, and start putting them to the test. Hopefully, from this, I will
find the settings best suited to my style of driving. As for the problem
with the crash back to the desktop, oh dear! I think I was VERY lucky last
night to finaly realise what it was. Many months ago, my fan on the PSU
(power supply unit), just suddenly stopped running! I fiddled around with it
and, got lucky and it ran again. It happened again about 2 months after that
and, the only way to get it to work that time was to tap gently with my
hand, at the vent on the case where the fan sits. Strange way I know :-) but
nothing else worked. Last night, (a few months since the last time), it
happened again. That is why GPL was crashing. My case and CPU temps shot up.

for the last year and a half. It is only the PSU that is faulty now and
again. I will have to do something about it VERY soon though, as it got so
HOT last night after the third crash, I couldn't put my hand on the back of
the case by the fan!!!!!!!! Phew, I was lucky no serious damage was done!
Anyway, thank you all for your help.

Bye,

Mad Max

<snip>

MadMAX you better do something quicker then soon as I konw first
hand! When my PSU fan went it also short circuited my 4 extras fans
that I run in my atx case. In shorting them it burnt out my motherbord,
256megs of PC133dram, my floppy drive, my D: and E: drive before
I could pull the plug!! I was sitting right here when it all happened too.
All this happened in less then 5secs so *dont* take that fan stopping
in your PSU lightly! Just some more fyi... Thom_j.
P.S. I was lucky that everything that burnt was under warranty and I
got new system & a free upgrade from my chinese guru shop! Phew
Lucky Me!! :-)

<snipped>
| That is why GPL was crashing. My case and CPU temps shot up.

| for the last year and a half. It is only the PSU that is faulty now and
| again. I will have to do something about it VERY soon though, as it got so
| HOT last night after the third crash, I couldn't put my hand on the back
of
| the case by the fan!!!!!!!! Phew, I was lucky no serious damage was done!
<snipped>

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