rec.autos.simulators

Gentlemen and Ladies --

With the advent of NASCAR 2 and its change in carset architecture, we
at IWCCCARS have been spending a considerable amount of energy
deciding how we should proceed once the new simulator is released.

For those of you who do not know, NASCAR 2 will make use of a "car set
index" -- which basically means that you can have an unlimited amount
of cars in a "driver pool" type environment.  That also means that
there will be no more carsets to distribute.  Take into account that
that is the whole reason IWCCCARS exists, and you can see our dilemma.

We've bantered around the idea of packaging sets of .PCX files in
numerical order (i.e. cars 0-25, 26-50, 51-99, etc.), distributing
them individually, or even contracting a programmer to design a unique
low-maintenance installation wizard for our cars.  We have been eager
to adapt, especially since the new paintkit adds two or three new
panels that can be painted (although, in my opinion at least, they
still have a long way to go in adding paintable surfaces).

However, recently we've been seeing a veritable explosion of pilfering
around the 'Net; from individual .PCX files to car sets to even our
HTML design.  I have been told that "imitation is the sincerest form
of flattery."  Not in this case -- the extreme amount of time the
design team has spent developing the cars is equalled only by the
personal man-hours I have put into the Web site.  A lot of these
people don't care where they got it -- they care only that people see
that they have it.  Historically, we have freely allowed our work to
be posted on other sites, with the caveat that the IWCCCARS design
team (not just one of the designers) gets collective mention as the
creators.  However, it irks us when people take what we've spent long
hours on and just throw it up on their own site to promote themselves.

IWCCCARS is not indispensible on the 'Net.  There are several
excellent sites for originally-designed NASCAR Racing cars -- Mike
Carver's site, Chris Fredericks' Racing HQ, etc. -- as well as other
sites that have broken our carsets up and distributed them
individually (unfortunately, some without asking us first).
Additionally, Denny Hoffman, an "emeritus" design team member, is
crafting another series of individual cars on CompuServe that
eventually, by legitimate or other means, will make it out to the 'Net
at large.  So if IWCCCARS went away, there would not be a vacuum in
the sim racing world.

You here on rec.autos.simulators represent the bulk of our usership.
I would like to ask you to respond either here in this thread or on
our Guestbook at any one of our three URLs to the following question:

Is a need for the IWCCCARS Project once NASCAR 2 is released?

Please, do NOT send ego-stroking mail (much as we love it) -- we are
conducting a poll here to determine both the future of our Project and
our future in other areas of simulation racing.  Your response counts
-- it will help us determine how we proceed the next couple of months.
Collectively, we are hesitant to break into the single-.PCX market,
for reasons I outlined above.  But first and foremost we want to hear
from you, the people who actually use our stuff.  Your opinion matters
the most to us.

Thank you as always for supporting us!
--
Tony Johns (Hawaii: IWCCCARS)
IWCCCARS Project Coordinator
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~iwcc/project.htm
http://www.racesimcentral.net/~iwcc/project.htm
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Of course this is all pure speculation, since as far as I know, no one
knows the exact format of the NASCAR2 files/indexing scheme.  To answer
the BIG question, yes we still can use the excellent services of
IWCCARS.

Unless Papyrus drastically changes the "size" of the cars in NR2, most
of the past work should be fairly easy to "cut'n'paste" onto the new
bodies (given the proper painting tools).  I don't see why we won't be
able to "package" car sets (even if they are individual .pcx files).  
As you stated people have been able to "break up" you present carsets
and individually pass around the cars.

I think you may be putting the car(t) before the horse here.  Let's not
get our "knickers in a twist" yet.  However, as Papyrus nears the
release date of NR2, maybe they could let the "art community" get a
sneak release of the car template along with the pallette.  I am not
asking for the "paintkit" or anything else just a copy of an "exported"
.pcx file.  We can worry about the "packaging" details later.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

I dont know about most of the people who play Nascar on a regular basis
but any cars I ever tried to design or paint ended up looking like grade
school art projects.  I couldnt even come close to designing anything
that resembles something that you would see on a real track.  
You people at IWCCARS do a great job at creating cars and updating the
sets to match what we see on TV each week, and this will definitely be
necessary when Nascar 2 is released.  Judging from the other Papyrus
sims, more than likely they will not be able to license all of the cars
on the Winston Cup circuit, unless sanctioning by NASCAR has made it
easier than when Nascar 1 and ICR were released.  In any case, I hope
that you will continue to produce the cars because I and many others
really enjoy using them.  Its really too bad that people rip off your
logos and dont give credit to you when they post pcx cars that came from
your sets.  I hope these people dont ruin it for the rest of us that
appreciate your work.  

Thanks,

Mark Roberts

Absolutely! Over the months, I know I can count on IWCCCARS to put out the
most accurate car sets anywhere. Plus, you know we'll want to see *.pcx files
for cars in the older car sets, as well. The single *.pcx file format would be
fine, in fact I wish it existed now. I think a lot of people will be
disappointed if IWCCCARS ended with the release of NASCAR2. Don't stop it!!

IMHO, the demise of the IWCC cars project would leave a huge hole in Sim
racing. I have appreciated your work from the beginning and I would hate
to see you go.

K.S.
http://www.geocities.com/motorcity/2172

Tony

I vote that iwcccars stays around in some form or another.
There is no doubt in my mind that it is needed

Randy

IMO, iwccars isnt going anywhere. They'll just be real busy for a
while<g>

--------------
Michael Kirton

The IWCCCARS site is the best place for cars ANYWHERE on the net. If you
leave alot of the AOL type cars will be everywhere.  So, yes there is a
need for your services.
--

http://user.mc.net/n9ldx
McHenry Com Service Provider
http://www.mc.net
#2 is #1!

Please continue, the IWCCARS carsets are great!

KenH

  I believe that the accuracy of the cars that y'all produce will allways a
great deal of realism to the "Look" of the game.  I personally would be
saddened to see y'all go.  Please stick around.  We need ya. ;-)

   Steve

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An example of a website that actually demonstrates careful planning!

I would suggest creation of a flat database that would support
searches based on car number, sponsor ID, or driver (in some cases,
most recent driver, given the nature of Nascar driver releases!)
If you pursue car groupings, another one to consider is by car
manufacturer (ie, all Ford cars, etc.) I have not analyzed the numbers
ssigned in Nascar, but I am pretty confident that a grouping of 0-25
would encompass the most cars, 26-50 next in car count, etc. Those of
us who want a higher numbered car (Bill Elliot, as an example) would
have to download the 51-99 carset anyhow.  It would result in
essentially everyone downloading every carset anyhow.  I believe a
more important feature is a clear dating of when a car or carset
grouping was last modified.  This would be most beneficial of all.

I have advocated the use of a document to be attached to the car file,
similar to the form used for DOOM levels.  The same problem existed
two years ago, and this was addressed by a line attributing the level
(car) to the originator.  This gave due credit to the person who did
the initial work, and also credited the person who may have used it as
a base for further work.  

Not a vacuum, but a definite void that would be filled by lesser
entities. IWCCCARS is the most visible clearing house for carsets, and
hopefully for individual cars for NAS2. IWCCCARS would be sorely
missed, IMHO.

Yes. Expanded in fact, to continue to support NAS1 for us diehards,
and enhanced for NAS2 cars, however they are structured.

Not in the ego-stroking business.

I am sorry that I have reposed the entire article, but I believe my
comments posted by themselves would be taken out of context.
It is far too easy for misunderstandings to take place when just
isolated comments are posted.  
Also, this way those who do not have access to the original article
can see the manner I intend my input to take.

Please, keep up the excellent work.  Your time spent is appreciated by
myself, if not everyone who has benefited from a IWCCCARS carset added
to their sim.

robino on HAW

Tony please stick around.  We will need you and the crew even more when
nascar2 comes.  I don't knnow what we would do without you.

Ron R II

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