rec.autos.simulators

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

Jan Verschuere

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Jan Verschuere » Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:57:07

Although indeed quite vexing, it was not what I was getting at. See reply to
Sebastien.

Jan.
=---

Jan Verschuere

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Jan Verschuere » Mon, 03 Jun 2002 22:04:25

Once again: my comment was not about counter steering. Seeing as I'm forced
to explain this is no longer going to be funny, but read what you originally
posted...

So, presumably, you to go left on your bike, you first steer to the right,
which makes "the car" (presumably your car, back home in the garage) lean to
the left, which in turn allows the bike to go through the turn by itself.

Rather strange if you ask me... ;-)

Jan.
=---

Dave Henri

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Dave Henri » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 00:56:27


  going back to the bike sim that drives like a car statement, are we
following you now Jan?   My first comment was probably focus'd on the
finality(sp?) of his counter-steering statement...you can't turn WITHOUT CS.
I think that since many riders don't even know what CS is, they can't use it
everytime.  Your body, however, may know more about the laws of physics than
your mind.  While I had to learn to countersteer, I never had to learn to
lean into a turn.  I suspect that even if we are not physically yanking on
the opposite bar, we are inducing some countersteer by beginning to lean or
shift our weight as we start a turn.
Perhaps that's Seb's point.
Dave Henrie

Jan Verschuere

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 03:34:05

<yet another counting steering explanation which I understand and agree with
snipped>

I give up.... you guys aren't even hearing the sonic boom of my point
passing over your heads.

Jan. ;-)
=---

Gunnar Horrigm

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Gunnar Horrigm » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 05:39:56


> I don't knowif you know how to drive a motorbike, but you should know
> that to go left on a bike you have to first steer toright, to make the
> car lean to left, then let the bike turn by itself ;o)

I'd like to see this, but I'm pretty sure a counter-steering bike sim,
wouldn't go down too well with most people. :)

I think GP500 is pretty good, actually.  it's far from being GPL,
sure, but in general, when you "do stuff", you get the right sort of
results.

no bike these days.  too bleeding expensive.  used to race 600s,
though I'll admit I wasnt particularly good at it. :)

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
               "a language is a dialect with an army and a navy"

Gunnar Horrigm

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Gunnar Horrigm » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 05:41:27


>    Actually he's partially correct.  You don't have to start a turn by
> counter-steering,(actually a tug on the opposite side of the handlebars in
> relation to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, it initiates
> the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker and thus speeds your turn.  A
> handy gimic that most road racers have learned.  Convincing a street rider
> that it works is sometimes difficult.

it's close to impossible.  I do insist that everybody does it this way
though, conscios or not.  steering with body weight is just too slow. :)

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                    to err is human -- to forgive is bovine.

Goy Larse

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Goy Larse » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 05:45:17


> "Dave Henrie" wrote...
> > <snip>  My first comment was probably focus'd on the
> > finality(sp?) of his counter-steering statement...

> <yet another counting steering explanation which I understand and agree with
> snipped>

> I give up.... you guys aren't even hearing the sonic boom of my point
> passing over your heads.

> Jan. ;-)
> =---

I guess their bikes have 4 wheels Jan....:-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

John Metco

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by John Metco » Mon, 03 Jun 2002 21:47:11

in france, those bastards drive backwards
with the driver facing the front

no insult intended to french men
just french drivers
:-)))




Asbj?rn Bj?rnst

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Asbj?rn Bj?rnst » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 12:02:05




> >> Weird bikes you got there in France.... ;-)

> >   Actually he's partially correct.  You don't have to start a turn by

> Why partially ? I'm totaly correct, i'm driving motrcycle for some
> years, i tried some racing bike on racing tracks.

> You can't take a turn WITOUT counter-steer, except when you are almost
> stoped.

You're partially correct.
Forget the gyroscopic effect, it's a red herring and is not the reason
you countersteer, balance is the key. Which also explains why the bike
will un-lean when you use the brake. If your lean increases with the use
of the rear brake, I can only assume that the rear wheel is sliding or
drifting.

Of course.
--
  -asbjxrn

Asbj?rn Bj?rnst

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Asbj?rn Bj?rnst » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 12:03:34


> no bike these days.  too bleeding expensive.  used to race 600s,
> though I'll admit I wasnt particularly good at it. :)

Everyone should be able to do 1:02 at Rudskogen with a little bit of
practice, no?
--
  -asbjxrn
Sebastien Tixie

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Sebastien Tixie » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 15:47:43




>>    Actually he's partially correct.  You don't have to start a turn by
>> counter-steering,(actually a tug on the opposite side of the handlebars in
>> relation to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, it initiates
>> the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker and thus speeds your turn.  A
>> handy gimic that most road racers have learned.  Convincing a street rider
>> that it works is sometimes difficult.

>it's close to impossible.  I do insist that everybody does it this way
>though, conscios or not.  steering with body weight is just too slow. :)

correct ! ;o)

A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK
schools, and they had a motorbike with 2  steering, one was working
and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make
the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body.
Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was
too strong.

Dave Henri

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Dave Henri » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 16:10:01





> >>    Actually he's partially correct.  You don't have to start a turn by
> >> counter-steering,(actually a tug on the opposite side of the handlebars
in
> >> relation to which direction you wish to turn) but if you do, it
initiates
> >> the weight transfer that tiny bit quicker and thus speeds your turn.  A
> >> handy gimic that most road racers have learned.  Convincing a street
rider
> >> that it works is sometimes difficult.

> >it's close to impossible.  I do insist that everybody does it this way
> >though, conscios or not.  steering with body weight is just too slow. :)

> correct ! ;o)

> A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK
> schools, and they had a motorbike with 2  steering, one was working
> and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make
> the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body.
> Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was
> too strong.

    Lucky Sot.....
dh
Gunnar Horrigm

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Gunnar Horrigm » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 16:29:43


> You're partially correct.
> Forget the gyroscopic effect, it's a red herring and is not the reason
> you countersteer, balance is the key. Which also explains why the bike
> will un-lean when you use the brake. If your lean increases with the use
> of the rear brake, I can only assume that the rear wheel is sliding or
> drifting.

handling on the brakes depends on a lot of things, I think.  at least
for the front brake.  I never touch the rear brake myself, but
applying the front brake in a turn will make the bike stand up with
some tires (metzelers, for instance), where other tires will make it
lean more (Dunlop's 207GP is an example of this).  probably depends on
the steering geometry too.  the above was true for the CBR600 at least.

can't say I understand why, though.

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
                                     FJ?SE!

Gunnar Horrigm

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by Gunnar Horrigm » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 16:32:27


> A friend of mine has a SBK racing training at laguna seca at the SBK
> schools, and they had a motorbike with 2  steering, one was working
> and the other was jsut a fixed pol on the fuel tank. They had to make
> the motorbike turn using the fixed pol , and by leaning their body.
> Weel, the motorbike didn't turn at all ;o) The gyroscopic effect was
> too strong.

if I understand you correct, that has nothing to do with gyroscopic
effects. are you saying the forks didn't turn?  in that case, the bike
can't turn, because the front wheel can't turn.

it's perfectly possible to steer without counter-steering.  try
steering the bike without holding the handlebars.  you'll see.  :)

--
Gunnar
    #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo: 2
        gnus don't kill people.  gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

David G Fishe

When is a REALISTIC bike sim coming out?

by David G Fishe » Tue, 04 Jun 2002 17:48:19

Did any of you guys see my post with this in it?
http://europe.thrustmaster.com/products/d_prd.php?p=T89&fam=4

David G Fisher



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