rec.autos.simulators

I've come to the conclusion after watching several fast lap replays courtesy
of the APEX GPL site www.gpl.gamestats.com  that GPL is really made for the
arcade racer who has got exceedingly fast twitch reflexes and who has
mastered the art of drifting the car precariously through every corner --
just like in an arcade game, like SEGA RALLY.  These fast lap arcade
specialists will do well over one or two laps but if they adopt this
technique over a race of 1 1/2 hours they are invariably going to crash and
burn very early in the race -- by lap three I'd say.

You should be very of these "arcade specialists" who insist this is a true
simulation.  They are an insidious breed who unfortunately inhabit this NG
boasting of their accomplishments and insisiting ad nauseum that GPL is as
real as it gets.

"Simulation specialists" on the other hand want to drive like real drivers
do.  They strive to be quick in qualifying and over a course of a race but
they also want to survive the qualifying period intact and make it through a
race.  The application of proper acceleration , braking, cornering, passing,
and sliptreaming  techniques are virtues  that the simulation specialist
strives to acheive.  The notion of a kamikaze lap is anathema to them.   The
question raised is this:  does GPL allow the simulation specialist to
achieve these important principles?  No.  So far, GPL has only given the
arcade specialist any pleasure.

The "arcade specialist" does not seek a realistic vicarious experience -- he
only seeks out  the instant gratification of a suicide run.  Witness the
1:0:7 lap by Chris Bolle; he didn't even slow down for the first
right-hander, (which is very close to the start/finish line,) before
crossing the line, thus assuring himself of his "jaw-dropping" lap time and
of course assuring himself of that inevitable crash  at that first turn.
Then these self-described simulation racing experts rant that GPL will be
the greatest simulation ever to hit store shelves in a mall near you.
Better yet , now they won't have to go waste another cent in the local
arcade because right in their own home, courtesy of GPL  they get to
experience the vicarious thrill of pretending they are racing SEGA RALLY.

I'm sorry, but, ugh.

Matt (who can run lotsa laps in the 1.08s/09/010s without crashing, and
without lifting for turn1)

--

Matthew Birger Knutsen
Cheek Racing Cars (http://home.sn.no/~kareknut)

"Racing cars is like dancing with a chainsaw"
       -Cale Yarborough

You are an example of the  "arcade specialist" that I'm talking about.

Too bad you don't know Matt's background better, else you would
know that he's involved with the real_McCoy.  Who else to judge
whether something is true_to_life or not?  =)

Cheers!

Marc

(please remove '_*_' when replying)

Sim Racing News - http://www.simnews.com
The Sim Project - http://www.simproject.com

* No animals were harmed in the making of this e-mail *

: The "arcade specialist" does not seek a realistic vicarious experience -- he
: only seeks out  the instant gratification of a suicide run.  Witness the
: 1:0:7 lap by Chris Bolle; he didn't even slow down for the first
: right-hander, (which is very close to the start/finish line,) before
: crossing the line, thus assuring himself of his "jaw-dropping" lap time and
: of course assuring himself of that inevitable crash  at that first turn.

        Ayrton Senna once did a similar thing when qualifying for the
French GP at Magny-Cours (I forget which year, though I'm sure someone
else remembers).  As the finish line was located at the start of the
straightaway, Ayrton took the last chicane faster than usual, took pole
position, then spun.  Now to my outrage...

        How dare you dismiss the skill of Chris Boll as arcade-style "instant
gratification"!  He may not have the cleanest lines, but there is no
denying his ability to brake without a puff of tire smoke (Incidentally,
when was the last time you saw an arcade racer with locked wheels?).  Even
if he had slowed down for the next lap it still would have resulted in a
sub-1:08 which is still very good.  Your attack on Mr. Boll's hard work reeks
of sour grapes.  

        Having only achieved a 1:09.14 myself (and consistent mid-1:09s
on the whole), sure I was pissed off to find out some 16-year-old made me
look third-rate.  This only redoubled my efforts and did not cause me to
launch into a misguided tirade against something I didn't understand.  Is
it so hard to applaud a 1:07?

        I foresee GPL demo laptimes dropping to the 1:06s and even lower
once people can set up their own cars.  I also foresee many allegations
of cheating and "unrealism" from the likes of you.

Martin
Nigel Mansell RIP!

<Senseless drivel snipped>

You are funny... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
How to get rid of censorship in German game releases
<http://www.gamesmania.com/german/maniac/freedom/freedom.htm>

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Its a Game and that is all.  Its fun and it does help me with my racing but it
feels nothing like driving the real car.    And as for Bonzai laps look at Niki
Lauda's books.  Even "THE COMPUTER " said you have to run hard and take chances
in qualifying to get a good starting position esp at some tracks where passing
is almost impossible.  If you wnat to see what real Bonzai racing is like try
SCCA Solo ll you get three runs on a course you have only walked and the time
between winners and losers is only in hundreths of seconds.

RACER 23 EP

Hey, save yourself a lot of writing and just say "this sim is way to
good for me and I'll never be #1 and it's driving me crazy". So much
more simple isn't it? Go back to NFS or something pal!

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:14:44 -0400, "Charles Mak"

In F1GP people use to take the Ostkurve chicane flat in fifth and try
time after time after time until they did it on one perfect lap. In
ICR2 you get the same thing with the Surfer's backstraight esses. On
any circuit in any sim you will get people who sit for hour after
hour, lap after lap just trying to get that one perfect lap - they
will ALWAYS be faster than you or I.

Is it realistic - no Do they enjoy it - yes. Will they win any races -
probably not. As you pointed out, you can't drive that way in a race
and hope to last, but anyone who can drive a car like that can
certainly slow down enough to drive at 95% and keep it on the track.

It is - for now.

Oh bollocks. GPL, like any other sim, delivers what you ask of it. If
you want to drive it realistically you can - if you want to sit for
hour after hour looking for a perfect lap you also can. Look around
you on the group - the vast majority of people are enjoying the heck
out of GPL and they are all sim fans. Can I take it from that that you
are the only "simulation specialist", since you say that GPL has only
given the arcade specialist pleasure?

A touch too egocentric I think.

This is not "arcade" this is called thinking about your lap (in fact I
think I suggested that). This was something the drivers had to do at
Vallelunga in order to get a good lap, since you had to brake before
the S/F line in order to make T1. The drivers stayed *** it and
sacrificed the next lap in order to gain a couple of tenths. I'm sure
other tracks are the same.

Er, okay, whatever.

Remember GPL is not yet finished, and tyre pressures and temperatures
do not change with abuse. Things like that will serve to punish anyone
who hangs the tail out, since the rears will get hot, lose traction
and wear rapidly. The pressure will also increase serving to decrease
the amount of *** on the road and decrease grip further. Like I
said, it's a pre-alpha.

Cheers!
John

Note.
"Bonzai" = "Banzai"

Oh dear... now you've made me think about "bonsai racing". Would that be
fastest growing, or could you put them on little carts and tow them behind
teams of trained snails? Either way, I'd probably be better at it than GPL
:o)

Actually John, it is rather different but not necessarily in the way that
out troll loving friend seems to imagine ;-)

IMHO hotlapping style driving as in GP2, ICR2, N2, F1RS and most
especially CPR simply does not work in GPL. OK maybe one lap in 1000 it
might and I guess that some people will try that but not many - and most
certainly not guys like Doug Arno. My experience quite clearly indicates
that smoothness and consistency is the way to get fast times in GPL, not
ultra fast reflexes and throwing the car about.

Cheers,
Richard

On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:14:44 -0400, "Charles Mak"

   In the current "arcade"* state of the demo (no setups, no
competitors - AI or human) WHAT DO YOU EXPECT PEOPLE TO BE DOING?!?
Hot laps, obviously.  What else CAN they do with it, in a competitive
sense?

   Funny, a lot of the names popping up as vocal GPL fans don't seem
to be "one lap wonders"...

* - Sorry, he used the "A-word" five times, and I sunk to his level,
using it once...  :)

Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking...  Did he complain
to five or six postmasters last month?  Now, you must ask yourself one
question: "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, do you, punk?

Poor baby don't be jealous if you can't drive like the rest. Wait till you
are 16, get a license and go out on the world and see what it is like to
drive a real car