rec.autos.simulators

by **RedCobra on NR** » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I'm using a button on the wheel as a "digital" clutch in GPL. Is it
possible to wire in a pot so that you have an "analog" clutch? i.e. not all
on or all off. If so would you kindly tell me HOW, or direct me to such
information.

Thanks in advance

by **Cossi** » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

it should be, you can try to get a used pedal and use it as joystick 2, with
some technique you should be able to combine them together

by **Nafi Coke** » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Larry,

I had the samequestion a while ago, and am planning to implement a clutch
in my Nascar Pro. Here is an anwer I recieved from this NG:

--------------------from bobo88

GPL will pick up all 4 pedals (2 joysticks x 2 Axis's)
On the Nascar Pro, the wiring from the joystick port
(Sound Card interface) does not have the wires for
all of the Axis's. So I obtained the connectors and
wired it myself.

Heres the connector pinout:
Pin 1: +5vdc to the wheel
(Center Tap)
Pin 2: Joystick A Button 1 to the UP shifter
Pin 3: Joystick A Axis X to the wheel (Outer Pin)
Pin 4: Ground Common for ALL
buttons
Pin 5: Ground - not used -
Pin 6: Joystick A Axis Y to the GAS pedal (Center
Tap)
Pin 7: Joystick A Button 2 to the DOWN shifter
Pin 8: +5vdc - not used -
Pin 9: +5vdc to the BRAKE & GAS
pedal (Outer Pin) also CLUTCH (Center Tap)
Pin 10: Joystick B Button 1 to the LEFT button (On the
Wheel)
Pin 11: Joystick B Axis X to the BRAKE pedal (Center
Tap)
Pin 12: (DO NOT USE) Midi - not used -
Pin 13: Joystick B Axis Y to the CLUTCH pedal
Pin 14: Joystick B Button 2 to the RIGHT button (On the
Wheel)
Pin 15: (DO NOT USE) Midi - not used -

by **SteveBla** » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

Don't know that it's worth it. I use a GP1 wheel with CH pedals, and thus have
an analog clutch through the wheel-mounted former brake paddle. Even
calibrated to the full travel of the lever, it's still almost like an on/off
switch. I stopped bothering with it, and get better, more consistent starts
without it. If the engagement could be broadened, then you'd have something.

Steve B.

by **Nafi Coke** » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I agree. From what I've read (also in the GPL book) that the clutch was not
meant to be a full function control but more or less a switch function. And
it seems that it was not used any differently in real life either -- just to
get going and prevent stalls during a spin. Either case it can be handled
with a button.

Still, it might give a more natural feel with a pedal and it would be ready
when the games implement realistic clutch function.

Nafi Coker

>> Is it possible to wire in a pot so that you have an "analog" clutch?

>Don't know that it's worth it. I use a GP1 wheel with CH pedals, and thus
have
>an analog clutch through the wheel-mounted former brake paddle. Even
>calibrated to the full travel of the lever, it's still almost like an
on/off
>switch. I stopped bothering with it, and get better, more consistent
starts
>without it. If the engagement could be broadened, then you'd have
something.

>Steve B.

by **Michael Youn** » Thu, 22 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I dorked around with the clutch one evening, doing 0-60-0 tests. It does
indeed feel like a real clutch. There's a "sticky" point where it just
grabs, exactly as in a real car. You need to ride it here until the road
speed matches, and then you can drop the hammer and let the clutch all
the way in. Drag-racers consider this an art form; I don't much about
doing standing starts. At any rate, the lack of seat-o-pants feedback
makes it more difficult to do, but it certainly is possible.

I just traded up from a GP1 to an MS FF; the clutch is no longer an
option, and I agree with you that it's hardly worth it. The paddle is
just too far away to grab in time if you're swapping ends.

Michael.

> > Is it possible to wire in a pot so that you have an "analog" clutch?

> Don't know that it's worth it. I use a GP1 wheel with CH pedals, and thus have
> an analog clutch through the wheel-mounted former brake paddle. Even
> calibrated to the full travel of the lever, it's still almost like an on/off
> switch. I stopped bothering with it, and get better, more consistent starts
> without it. If the engagement could be broadened, then you'd have something.

> Steve B.

by **Nigel Nichol** » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

The pedal/steering unit I build has a analog clutch pedal and
I can say for sure that it can be used progressively. The car
can be in 4th gear for example and just easing out the clutch
pedal you are able to slip the clutch and get the car rolling
with high engine rpm. GPL is difinitly not just a On/Off
clutch. Starting off the grid with the clutch allows high
engine rpms with the stationary car in gear.

Nigel

--

Redline Race Controls

Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports
Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy
Hamilton
New Zealand

by **Neil Jedrzejews** » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

>I agree. From what I've read (also in the GPL book) that the clutch was not
>meant to be a full function control but more or less a switch function. And
>it seems that it was not used any differently in real life either -- just to
>get going and prevent stalls during a spin. Either case it can be handled
>with a button.

>Still, it might give a more natural feel with a pedal and it would be ready
>when the games implement realistic clutch function.

>Nafi Coker

Well all the time I raced cars (Formula Ford, Formula Vauxhaul, et al)
I only ever used the clutch on the start and did clutchless shifts
both up and down (I left foot brake).

In GPL what is nice is that you need to lift when you do shift up or
you will snatch the next gear and lock the wheels causing a spin -
even though I did clutchless upshifts, I always lifted to stop this
happening and to to reduce stress through the transmission shafts.

- Jed, The Pits

by **Nafi Coke** » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

It is obvious that there are varied opinions about the clutch function in
GPL. Although all seem to point to the fact that having an analog foot
clutch will not necessarily provide an added advantage and that it is more a
personal preference.

It is also interesting to hear that in real life racing too left foot
braking is used, Jed, just for my curiosity, is this something commonly
done or is it the few taboo breakers that ignore all that stuff about heel
and toe braking/shifting?

Nafi Coker

>Well all the time I raced cars (Formula Ford, Formula Vauxhaul, et al)
>I only ever used the clutch on the start and did clutchless shifts
>both up and down (I left foot brake).

>In GPL what is nice is that you need to lift when you do shift up or
>you will snatch the next gear and lock the wheels causing a spin -
>even though I did clutchless upshifts, I always lifted to stop this
>happening and to to reduce stress through the transmission shafts.

>- Jed, The Pits

by **Bill Bollinge** » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

> It is also interesting to hear that in real life racing too left foot
> braking is used, Jed, just for my curiosity, is this something commonly
> done or is it the few taboo breakers that ignore all that stuff about heel
> and toe braking/shifting?

In Winston Cup racing I think the only 2 drivers that still use only 1
foot gas/braking is Earnhardt and Spencer.

Bill / Amish on TEN

by **Nafi Coke** » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

I can understand that in most WC oval circuits there is pretty much no
shifting so left foot braking would be straight forward.

Is it as common in Road racing also?

Nafi
Zargana on TEN

>> It is also interesting to hear that in real life racing too left foot
>> braking is used, Jed, just for my curiosity, is this something commonly
>> done or is it the few taboo breakers that ignore all that stuff about
heel
>> and toe braking/shifting?

>In Winston Cup racing I think the only 2 drivers that still use only 1
>foot gas/braking is Earnhardt and Spencer.

>Bill / Amish on TEN

by **SteveBla** » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

As for the clutch, I never meant it was literally a "switch", just that the
engagement zone was too narrow for consistent results with my GP1 paddle.
Perhaps a foot model with more travel would be better. And certainly it's only
good for starting.

And about left foot braking, I saw an interview with Alex Zanardi the other day
about testing the Williams F1 car. He said he was going to have to learn how
to do that, but that Jimmy Vasser, his teammate, had helped him, as he already
drove that way. These days you never know. Apparently Villeneuve uses a hand
operated clutch in his car, with both up & downshifts done by the right hand.
weird. What next, joysticks?

Steve B.

by **Bill Bollinge** » Fri, 23 Oct 1998 04:00:00

> I can understand that in most WC oval circuits there is pretty much no
> shifting so left foot braking would be straight forward.

> Is it as common in Road racing also?

> Nafi
> Zargana on TEN

Ask Schletter, but I think most of the CART guys are left foot brakers
as well. In WC, With the more antique style shifting, I would imagine
the majority of guys would not be left foot braking.

Bill / Amish on TEN

by **Ben Colema** » Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:00:00

>I can understand that in most WC oval circuits there is pretty much no
>shifting so left foot braking would be straight forward.

>Is it as common in Road racing also?

I'm no expert, but I recall seeing some viseos of rallying (esp pikes
peak/Ari Vatanen and GroupB/Walter Ruhrl (sp?)) and their peadl dancing was
spectacular! They used left foot AND right foot braking, depending on
circumstance. Haven't seen such videos of road rcing tho...

Ben

by **Nigel Nichol** » Sat, 24 Oct 1998 04:00:00

>I'm no expert, but I recall seeing some viseos of rallying (esp pikes
>peak/Ari Vatanen and GroupB/Walter Ruhrl (sp?)) and their peadl dancing was
>spectacular! They used left foot AND right foot braking, depending on
>circumstance. Haven't seen such videos of road rcing tho...

>Ben

I recall Ricky Craven's footwork shown at Sears Point two
years ago and he was doing plenty of foot dancing. Left/right
foot braking and heel toe braking. Most impressive to watch.

I had spent lots of time practising heel/toe braking while
driving to work as I drive on back country roads most of the
way. Since both our cars are 5 forward speed manuals I tend to
"play" (carefully) while driving to work. Most rewarding to be
under brakes as well as blipping the engine and clutching all
at once.

"Boys will be boys"
--

Redline Race Controls

Nigel of Lakewood Motorsports
Nascar Coruba & Coke Chevy
Hamilton
New Zealand