rec.autos.simulators

by **Marc Dave** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:13:01

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I wonder how forgiving people would have bee of M4 and its well
documented foibles would have been had it been released by anyone else
but papyrus.
I mean the situation ppl are having with CD Rom drives is nothing
short of laughable.
Add to this the fact that the forums are full of people that paid good
money for a Sim that CTD or locks up their system, with no apparent
response from the developer is extremely poor.
The Martinsville Ai can only be described as pathetic and should not
have been released in their current state but the impression I get is
because this sim was relaeased by Papy alot of ppl are prepared to
overlook the fact that this game seems to need more development time.
Alot of these people are the same ones who seem to jump *** other
developers that dare to release anything less than prefect.
Am I the only one that see's some sort of disparity here

Flame away

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by **Marc Collin** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:32:40

Not me...but then I have been flamed for daring to say the same things you
just did.

Marc.

by **Don Burnett** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:44:08

Marc,
I've not seen you flamed. Folks that may disagree with how your assesing N4
state their opinions, just like your stating yours. Debate is a good thing.
Now go race some other track besides Martinsville and turn that draw ahead
down a little.
:)

--
Don Burnette

> Not me...but then I have been flamed for daring to say the same things you
> just did.

> Marc.

> > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

> > I wonder how forgiving people would have bee of M4 and its well
> > documented foibles would have been had it been released by anyone else
> > but papyrus.
> > I mean the situation ppl are having with CD Rom drives is nothing
> > short of laughable.
> > Add to this the fact that the forums are full of people that paid good
> > money for a Sim that CTD or locks up their system, with no apparent
> > response from the developer is extremely poor.
> > The Martinsville Ai can only be described as pathetic and should not
> > have been released in their current state but the impression I get is
> > because this sim was relaeased by Papy alot of ppl are prepared to
> > overlook the fact that this game seems to need more development time.
> > Alot of these people are the same ones who seem to jump *** other
> > developers that dare to release anything less than prefect.
> > Am I the only one that see's some sort of disparity here

> > Flame away

> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
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by **David G Fishe** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:00:28

Don't ask me (even if I do think you are 100% correct).

:-)

David G Fisher

by **Marc Collin** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:00:29

If people just stated their opinions, we'd have no problems. People telling
me to stop commenting, return the game, go program something better, etc.,
etc. are the problem. I am using N4 quite extensively. I just don't like
having to tippy-toe around the mines to find a track and racing combination
that isn't ludicrous. Unfortunately, I haven't found a single track yet
that is drivable or raceable once an "incident" occurs. It turns into
mayhem. It is just a matter of how quickly that happens. At Marty, you can
barely drive a lap before the mayhem occurs...at other tracks it is much
longer--but none allow an actual race.

Marc.

> Marc,
> I've not seen you flamed. Folks that may disagree with how your assesing
N4
> state their opinions, just like your stating yours. Debate is a good
thing.
> Now go race some other track besides Martinsville and turn that draw ahead
> down a little.
> :)

> --
> Don Burnette

> > Not me...but then I have been flamed for daring to say the same things
you
> > just did.

> > Marc.

> > > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

> > > I wonder how forgiving people would have bee of M4 and its well
> > > documented foibles would have been had it been released by anyone else
> > > but papyrus.
> > > I mean the situation ppl are having with CD Rom drives is nothing
> > > short of laughable.
> > > Add to this the fact that the forums are full of people that paid good
> > > money for a Sim that CTD or locks up their system, with no apparent
> > > response from the developer is extremely poor.
> > > The Martinsville Ai can only be described as pathetic and should not
> > > have been released in their current state but the impression I get is
> > > because this sim was relaeased by Papy alot of ppl are prepared to
> > > overlook the fact that this game seems to need more development time.
> > > Alot of these people are the same ones who seem to jump *** other
> > > developers that dare to release anything less than prefect.
> > > Am I the only one that see's some sort of disparity here

> > > Flame away

> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
> > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **David G Fishe** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 15:05:11

I have seen Marc flamed for his opinions on N4, which seemed very fair (I
don't have the game though).

I've always thought Marc was one of the Papy lackeys, but he's obviously
not, and I was wrong (hard for me to admit such a thing :-P ). He gives an
honest opinion.

David G Fisher

> Marc,
> I've not seen you flamed. Folks that may disagree with how your assesing
N4
> state their opinions, just like your stating yours. Debate is a good
thing.
> Now go race some other track besides Martinsville and turn that draw ahead
> down a little.
> :)

> --
> Don Burnette

> > Not me...but then I have been flamed for daring to say the same things
you
> > just did.

> > Marc.

> > > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

> > > I wonder how forgiving people would have bee of M4 and its well
> > > documented foibles would have been had it been released by anyone else
> > > but papyrus.
> > > I mean the situation ppl are having with CD Rom drives is nothing
> > > short of laughable.
> > > Add to this the fact that the forums are full of people that paid good
> > > money for a Sim that CTD or locks up their system, with no apparent
> > > response from the developer is extremely poor.
> > > The Martinsville Ai can only be described as pathetic and should not
> > > have been released in their current state but the impression I get is
> > > because this sim was relaeased by Papy alot of ppl are prepared to
> > > overlook the fact that this game seems to need more development time.
> > > Alot of these people are the same ones who seem to jump *** other
> > > developers that dare to release anything less than prefect.
> > > Am I the only one that see's some sort of disparity here

> > > Flame away

> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
> > > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **ymenar** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:25:01

<snip>

Wow look at all the problem N4 has! Some questionnable AI at Marty, and
some CD-Rom issues. Oh the humanity!

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Txl** » Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:42:58

I would just like to point out that when GP3 was released our US friends
here would constantly complain about split axis which was a real miss in
this game, maybe they tend to be more forgiving about something they REALLY
expect like nascar games...

Truth is, GP3 with split axis is still a big disappointment, our hopes are
going for F1RC, and when we'll have our disappointment from this one we'll
move back to GPL grumbling about "these idiots game developpers"...and
waiting for WSC.

> Not me...but then I have been flamed for daring to say the same things you
> just did.

> Marc.

> > **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

> > I wonder how forgiving people would have bee of M4 and its well
> > documented foibles would have been had it been released by anyone else
> > but papyrus.
> > I mean the situation ppl are having with CD Rom drives is nothing
> > short of laughable.
> > Add to this the fact that the forums are full of people that paid good
> > money for a Sim that CTD or locks up their system, with no apparent
> > response from the developer is extremely poor.
> > The Martinsville Ai can only be described as pathetic and should not
> > have been released in their current state but the impression I get is
> > because this sim was relaeased by Papy alot of ppl are prepared to
> > overlook the fact that this game seems to need more development time.
> > Alot of these people are the same ones who seem to jump *** other
> > developers that dare to release anything less than prefect.
> > Am I the only one that see's some sort of disparity here

> > Flame away

> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
> > http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

by **Scott B. Huste** » Sat, 17 Feb 2001 02:03:53

Not to mention its a security item that is causing the problem with the CDs
that most people are complaining about. If it were a new 3d rendering
capability that double fps and improves appearance, they would be running to
the store to upgrade their hardware without a question. Yet, because its a
new security item which they derive no real benefit from, its a huge
problem.

It's all about perceived value. The end user doesn't see any in the
security items causing the problems on a very small % of drives.

--
Scott B. Husted
PA-Scott
The Pits: PowerSims Magazine (http://www.theuspits.com)

> <snip>

> Wow look at all the problem N4 has! Some questionnable AI at Marty, and
> some CD-Rom issues. Oh the humanity!

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- May the Downforce be with you...
> -- http://www.ymenard.com/
> -- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
> hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Dog-Le** » Sat, 17 Feb 2001 02:40:51

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Marc,

I honestly don't think it's that bad...

-Larry

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by **BCla** » Sat, 17 Feb 2001 07:08:44

You see here, this is the type of response that comes from people that
think the game is next to nirvana. Oh the humanity!

|
|
| Wow look at all the problem N4 has! Some questionnable AI at Marty, and
| some CD-Rom issues. Oh the humanity!

by **Tony Jeste** » Sat, 17 Feb 2001 07:53:13

As it is still VERY playable for me, I'd rather have the game out sooner
than later.

-Tony-

>**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****

>I wonder how forgiving people would have bee of M4 and its well
>documented foibles would have been had it been released by anyone else
>but papyrus.
>I mean the situation ppl are having with CD Rom drives is nothing
>short of laughable.
>Add to this the fact that the forums are full of people that paid good
>money for a Sim that CTD or locks up their system, with no apparent
>response from the developer is extremely poor.
>The Martinsville Ai can only be described as pathetic and should not
>have been released in their current state but the impression I get is
>because this sim was relaeased by Papy alot of ppl are prepared to
>overlook the fact that this game seems to need more development time.
>Alot of these people are the same ones who seem to jump *** other
>developers that dare to release anything less than prefect.
>Am I the only one that see's some sort of disparity here

>Flame away

>-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
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by **ymenar** » Sat, 17 Feb 2001 07:52:14

> You see here, this is the type of response that comes from people that
> think the game is next to nirvana. Oh the humanity!

LOL I don't even _have_ N4. Oh the humanity!

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.ymenard.com/
-- People think it must be fun to be a genius, but they don't realise how
hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

by **Marc Dave** » Sat, 17 Feb 2001 08:17:08

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Unfortunately it is not at all playable for a surprising number of ppl
because of the lockups and CTD. Very unprofessional of Papy I would
have thought......oop's wait it's Papyrus so we can quite hapily take
this because as we all know it's not Papys fault but the ppl who spent
their money on an unfinnished product <sarcasm>

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by **Jan Verschuere** » Sat, 17 Feb 2001 10:00:50

Excuse me, but I'm getting pretty major Deja Vu here....

For the "xth" time:

NO: RAS as a whole doesn't cut Papyrus more slack than any other developer.
They just put more into their games and it shows. Even if some individuals
(myself included) should be inclined to be more forgiving towards them, they
earned this sort respect by 7 years of quality releases and support for
their titles.

NO: N4 doesn't have "well documented major foibles". There are
incompatibilities with some hardware and some people perceive accuracy
errors with some tracks and some AI behaviour. Others claim there are more
online connection problems than in "comparable" Papyrus releases. (I suspect
those same people haven't raced online GPL much <g>) Don't get me wrong, I'm
not saying these problems shouldn't be acknowledged and addressed, but it
would be wrong to assume the majority of buyers has showstopper type
problems with the game.

To get back to the deja vu element, each time Papyrus releases a product
there's the same 4 types of threads:

"Papyrus are behind the times with their graphic/sound hardware support."

--> When buying a new graphic/sound card, buy one that's supported by the
(future) games you want to play. If you bought card X "because it rocks with
Quake", don't *expect* other developers to make the same choices Id Software
made.

"The Physics/AI suck... it's unplayable".

--> Put in the effort, get the reward.

"What if anyone but Papyrus had released this?"

--> Sad to say, but there's very few developers out there but Papyrus who
can do a half decent racing _simulator_.

(For Nascar games) "Where's the exciment in going around in circles all the
time?"

--> no comment (done to death).

Honorable mention: "Which <hardware device here> for Nx?" <g>

Sorry 'bout the rant, if one has a genuine problem/question which can't be
addressed by info already available on the group, one should by all means
post, share info/tips/opinions and what not. It's just these sorts of posts
are getting to me, *again*.

Jan.
=---

rec.autos.simulators

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy

Idf it had been anyone else but Papy