rec.autos.simulators

Chicanes can be a real pain in the posterior, but very rewarding when you
get them right.

But these are the best! Thankfully we don't have to cope with the high G
forces that the real guys have to, but it's still a thrill to take a
corner like the last ones at Estoril and Monza!

Yes, the only street course are Adelaide & Monaco.

There are four lights on the dash which light up as the revs increase.
You change gear when the red one comes on. This is the sort of
arrangement that most F1 cars use these days.

Only Hockenheim, Spa and Suzuka take more than 1:30 to lap in race trim.
Most of the others do take between 1:15 and 1:30, though.

Obviously depends on how fast you are and what level of opposition you
run against. I would guess that racing at Ace level that I start lapping
the backmarkers after about 8 laps and will then lap about one car per
lap for the rest of the race.

It does require a lot of time if you want to exploit the settings to the
full, but that's because there are more options to change.

You are right though - the game should have come with some proper set-ups
for each track. But the good news is that there are lots of set-ups
available on the 'net to download. Sim Racing News publishes trackguides
which include very usable set-ups and I believe that John Wallace is
working on a complete set of "beginners" set-ups.

That's where it gets difficult. I would say "buy", but I love F1 <g>.
However, Indycar Racing introduced me to Indy which I now love to watch
and NASCAR Racing was pretty much the first time I had ever come across
that formula - I'ld now love UK tv to show the races. So maybe if you got
GP2 you would learn to appreciate F1 more??

Cheers,
Richard

Everyone on this NG (and PC gamer) seems to think that F1GP2 is the best
racing sim.  The problem for me is I don't like F1 racing.  Here is why.

CHICANES INSTEAD OF TIGHT TURNS - I really don't like chicanes.  There
seem to be many of them on F1 tracks.  I like short, tight turns
instead, like indycar tracks have.

LONG GENTLE TURNS - I also don't long, gentle turns.  F1 also seems to
have lots of these.  I don't like the race course style in general, I
like the temporary street courses.  I'd much rather see buildings around
me than wide open grass land.  How many street courses does GP2 have?
Only 2?

NO TACH? - from the pictures of Gp2 I have seen there dosen't seem to be
a tach.  I once herd from a un-reliable source say F1 cars don't have
tachs. How am I supposed to know when to shift?  Please tell me this
isn't true.

LONELY TRACKS - I know most F1 tracks take over 1 and 1/2 min to get
around.  I also know that there aren't many cars, only 22 I think.
Wouldn't this mean that for some stretches of the race you would not see
other cars at all?  In Icr2 there are more cars and shorter tracks,
which makes for seeing other cars often.  I really like this, even if
those other cars are lap traffic (or if I'm lap traffic for the other
cars!).  The idea fo 10-20 min streches of racing without seeing other
cars sounds very boring.

TO MUCH TIME IN THE SHOP?  In ICR2 there ars setups already made.
Sometimes a little change is required, but that's about it.  Does GP2
require lots of time changing settings?

        So, should I get GP2 anyway?  Are the "goods"  enough to outweigh my
dislike for F1 racing?  I am afraid I would still spend my time playing
ICR2.      
        Please post your responses.

There is a tach - only 4 lights (which looking on TV is about all you should
get)

if you get a couple of laps on your own then you have a good chance to
try and set a new lap record. Even if you zoom off into the lead at the start
you will get about a dozen laps before you begin lapping, after that, clear laps
are a rare thing.

Erm, GP2 features a comprenshive (understament) setup. But like you (I guess) I
cannot be bothered to do my own setting up, So I go to one of the GP2 homepages
and download them.

Thats your own decision. In my opinion, everyone who calls himself (or herself)
an autosimulators fan should try the Geoff Crammond way of doing things (ie F1GP
and GP2), just as everyone should try the Papyrus way of doing things.

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I read your questions and Richard Walkers responses with interest.
The fact of the matter is that the driving model in GP2 is the best
yet (particularily with a wheel/pedal combo).  I too love ICR2, but I
now find it practically undrivable compared to the car in GP2.  The
model in the NASCAR II demo is a big improvement, so I suspect we can
expect even greater improvements in the next generation of Papyrus
products.  In the meantime, GP2 is simply amazing and shouldn't be
missed -- regardless of your preferences.  It is a truism, that the
computer generation has become doomed to a pattern of constant upgrade
which will sustain Capitalism for the next billion years.

Simon Goodwin

  Yup, only 2, but they are good.

  There are lights on the dash. Green, green, yellow, and red. As you
come up on the red line, the first green lights, then the next, then
yellow, and when the red comes on, you shift. You have to have awfully
slow reflexes to blow the engine. I blew engines much more often in
ICR2 than GP2. The lights are easier to notice than the tach in grey
on ICR2. (For me anyway.)

  Can you say "Elhart Lake" 4 miles of country per lap....there's no
such thing in GP2. There is plenty of traffic if GP2. If you are a
middle-of-the-pack driver, you won't see as much, but if you are near
the front or the rear, you will be passing or being passed by plenty
of cars in a full race.

  There are default settings for each track, but no easy, fast and
ace, which to me was stupid. If you learn on easy, it is harder to
learn ace. I say learn on the toughest setting and you learn sooner.
  There are 5 levels of opposition, so if you use the default
settings, you can do well up to the middle. The top two levels, just
like ICR2 at 100%, you need to do plenty of practice and some
race-engineering to win races.
  But there are PLENTY of car setups that can be had. I find more
people with GP2 willing to share setups than ICR2. And there are
plenty of utilities out there to modify things easily. I myself have
just completed a (Win 95) setting file editor for GP2 that lets you
see the other guy's setup on the same screen as yours so you can see
what he is doing differently. That program is available at:
http://www.pclink.com/mformo/gp2se.html
  I also have the saem type of program for IndyCar 2 as well as NASCAR
Racing. That program is available at:
http://www.pclink.com/mformo/rcse.html

  The pluses far out-weigh the minuses. I was more an ICR fan, but I
never use it now that I have GP2.
Mark Formo
**********

Personal Home page = http://www.pclink.com/mformo/index.htm
RCSE Home Page     = http://www.pclink.com/mformo/rcse.html
GP2SE Home Page    = http://www.pclink.com/mformo/gp2se.html

We're talking about 2 different worlds worlds here. F1 is not only
about high speeds but also about tight corners, which is more
enjoyable _IMHO_ than ovals for instance (but boy do I hate the Imola
chicanes:).
I am glad there are not that many city tracks, and I wish there were a
lot less 'forest' tracks, as all those fancy graphics eat framerate.
But what would be Monte Carlo without the buildings or Hockenheim
without the trees?

Use auto-gear:) Seriously - there is a tach, but it doesn't show you
the full range, only the last notches so that you know when to shift
(half a dozen LEDs). It looks pretty much like the race in-cockpit
pictures seen on TV.

That's a problem with real F1, not as many cars as I would wich. But
this is compensated by another F1 problem: lack of competition.
Usually after 15% of the race you start lapping 'speed-challenged'
cars, and beside the half-dozen top cars the rest of the opposition is
spread enough that you find at least one car to lap every lap. Also
I'm not such a good driver, the guys behind me never let me watch the
scenery.

This really depends on the player. GP2 has a default setup. But has
like ICR2 a rather big set of setup variables. I have heard of people
who spent days of an ICR2 setup for every track. You can do the same
in GP2, or you can, like me, fire Netscape, download a few different
setups then see which one fits best your driving style.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. On my P5-120/32MB/Lightspeed 128
I have to turn off most of the fancy textures on both ICR2 and GP2 to
have a framerate I consider decent, so visually both games have the
same visual appeal to me. I liked the car handling in GP2 more. Tho my
guess is that even if I had enough computing power, the Rendition card
and the 3D-accelerated ICR2, I don't think I'd like the latter best. I
just like the real F1 a lot more than the real IndyCar. I don't care
if I overtake Andretti or Fittipaldi, but outbreaking HIll or
Schumacher is a blast. So I won't tell you "GP2 is the best game I've
ever played, go out and buy it!". GP2 managed to convey pretty well
the spirit of real F1 (IMHO), so if you don't like that spirit - don't
buy GP2.

Hope this makes sense,

Karim

Sincerely, Karim

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Please double any reply with an e-mail.
My ISP loses them less often :(

Well I don't see how anyone can prefer street courses over real
tracks. Even Indycar drivers prefer tracks likeElkhart Lake and Laguna
Seca over Toronto and Cleveland (the most exciting track to watch
though!)

Ever driven a standard transmission car? Do you look at your dash when
you shift or listen to the sound? Listen to the sound of course, like
every human. There IS a tach, sort of. You have about 5 lights on your
dash. 2 greens, 2 yelloes, and one red. If you let it go into the red,
your engine is getting damaged and you're not getting your full speed.

Well, GP2 is a SIMULATOR, not a game. That's the difference. I've
played Indycar and found it boring and arcady. GP2 is very realistic,
and if you***up and hit the wall, then too bad, you'll probably be
all alone unless you get lapped or you gain on everyone.

You start with a setup that is good enough to win in rookie mode, but
to go up, you'll have to adjust EVERYTHING. Like I said, it's a
simulator, not a game.

Well if you don't like F1, then I suggest you either rent it, or try
it from a friend before buying it, but honestly, I haven't found
anybody that has disliked this game. Actually, it has sold a few
computers around here!

Marc

Tut, tut, Richard! Don't you know that Spa is a street course too? As
far as I recall Canada may be officially classified as a street course
too, although don't quote me on that.

Cheers!
John
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Arrrgggghhh! And I thought that I was pedantic <g>

Read what I meant not what I wrote ;-)

Cheers,
Richard

Knowing it better this time, because I'm from Belgium :-),

Jo Helsen

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