rec.autos.simulators

by AD » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:44:09

Another thread and another few people you have rubbed up the wrong way,you
really do believe your own hype dont you Andrew.

AD

> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >You're wrong.

> It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that
> doesn't make it a virus.

> > And prolly trolling.

> I never troll.

> > Dave is right.

> You are as stupid as Dave then.

> > Any questions?

> Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell?
> --

> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

by **Mitch_** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 05:05:31

It's sad I killfile Andy the troll yet I still see his posts. We need
better filters ;)

> Another thread and another few people you have rubbed up the wrong way,you
> really do believe your own hype dont you Andrew.

> AD

> > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > >You're wrong.

> > It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that
> > doesn't make it a virus.

> > > And prolly trolling.

> > I never troll.

> > > Dave is right.

> > You are as stupid as Dave then.

> > > Any questions?

> > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell?
> > --

> > Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> > please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text.
> > Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

by AD » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:02:33

LOL Mitch :)

AD

> It's sad I killfile Andy the troll yet I still see his posts. We need
> better filters ;)

> > Another thread and another few people you have rubbed up the wrong
way,you
> > really do believe your own hype dont you Andrew.

> > AD

> > > On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> > > >You're wrong.

> > > It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that
> > > doesn't make it a virus.

> > > > And prolly trolling.

> > > I never troll.

> > > > Dave is right.

> > > You are as stupid as Dave then.

> > > > Any questions?

> > > Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell?
> > > --

spamtrap.
> > > Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> > > please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text.
> > > Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

by **Steve Smit** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 06:14:23

Yes, Andrew, why don't you go bother the nice folks in some other forum,
hmmmn?

> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith"

> >You're wrong.

> It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that
> doesn't make it a virus.

> > And prolly trolling.

> I never troll.

> > Dave is right.

> You are as stupid as Dave then.

> > Any questions?

> Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell?
> --

> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

by **don hodgdo** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:42:03

> Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell?
> --

PLONK

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 09:53:05

> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:24:40 GMT, "Steve Smith"

>>You're wrong.

> It might be software that you don't want on your system, but that
> doesn't make it a virus.

>> And prolly trolling.

> I never troll.

>> Dave is right.

> You are as stupid as Dave then.

>> Any questions?

> Is there anyone in this group apart from me with a brain cell?

I'm glad you have A brain cell. That single cell must really be
working overtime. Now back to the matter at hand...if your single cell
can remember the topic.
A virus in computerese is a program that is installed without the
user/owner's knowledge or permission. A virus installed in such a method
is then able to carry out the instructions of the virus' author. A virus
does not have to cause harm to a system, it may be benign, or it may be
malicious, but it is still a virus. A virus by it's very nature is
difficult to detect and difficult to remove. A virus can be coded to
spred itself, but again, this is not a requirement.

So...does this copy protection announce it's installation? No. Does
this CP remove itself when the host program is removed? No. Does this
CP hide key components from the user's view? Yes. Does this CP cause
difficulties for users? We have annecdotal evidence that this is true.
But even just sitting on a hard drive without the user's knowledge or
permission constitutes invasion by an outside source, i.e a virus.
Simply because the offending code does not replicate in the time-
honored method of copying address books, does NOT mean this code is not a
virus. Simply because this code uses a hidden method to replicate itself
(the installation of a demo or purchased product) does NOT mean it does
not spread. Simply because you say it ain't so doesn't mean squat.

dave (proud to be as 'stupid' as Steve Smith) henrie

by **bhoeni** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 10:12:10

This may be a dumb question, but:

After removing the files in question (assuming that it can be done), does TRD2
still run? Or does it re-install the files each time you put the CD in the
drive?

I have the files on my system, but (so far) I haven't noticed any ill effects.

Thanks!

> StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or at
> least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of
> what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing Black
> Mirror:

> ******************************

> Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by StarForce. On
> Windows98SE, I encountered two severe problems, both of them related to some
> device drivers that were installed by the StarForce copy protection
> software:

> Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers; this is
> completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained to Dreamcatcher and
> demanded that they provide me with facilities to remove the drivers.
> Dreamcatcher has since sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that appears
> to remove them.

> The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my USB
> memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in my
> memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher.

> Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and find any of
> these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd, prosync1.sys, sfhlp01.sys,
> prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys.

> Black Mirror [also] provided an in-game gamma setting, but it turned out to
> be problematic. Even with brightness turned up all the way, my monitor is
> very dark and requires a substantial gamma correction for most games. The
> in-game gamma setting didn't provide enough range, but it completely
> overrides the video card setting. As a result, I was forced to play the game
> with all the lights turned off, and my video
> card "vibrancy control" turned up.

> That's all we have so far, though. I'm sure the Starforce drivers take up
> unnecessary CPU cycles which also slow your computer down. Also, imagine the
> trouble that could cause if all these different copy protections start
> inserting drivers that you didn't know about...

> ******************************

> The StarForce issue has been raised in several other forums, among them:

> http://community.codemasters.com/fo...&threadid=41263
> http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33763491
> http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ul...=3;t=005286;p=1
> http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...sb=5&o=&fpart=1
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rem...77449~mode=flat

> > Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they
> > mentioned in the EULA?
> > --
> > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

by **Pete** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 12:03:00

Steve, after registering a complaint with Codemaster here is part of
their
response.
As you can see it was less than satisfactory. They didn't address my
concern that I will not except Viruses being installed on my PC.

Pete

- Show quoted text -

> StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered illegal...or
at
> least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of
> what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing
Black
> Mirror:

> ******************************

> Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by StarForce. On
> Windows98SE, I encountered two severe problems, both of them related to
some
> device drivers that were installed by the StarForce copy protection
> software:

> Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers; this is
> completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained to Dreamcatcher and
> demanded that they provide me with facilities to remove the drivers.
> Dreamcatcher has since sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that appears
> to remove them.

> The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my USB
> memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in
my
> memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher.

> Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and find any of
> these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd, prosync1.sys,
sfhlp01.sys,
> prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys.

> Black Mirror [also] provided an in-game gamma setting, but it turned out
to
> be problematic. Even with brightness turned up all the way, my monitor is
> very dark and requires a substantial gamma correction for most games. The
> in-game gamma setting didn't provide enough range, but it completely
> overrides the video card setting. As a result, I was forced to play the
game
> with all the lights turned off, and my video
> card "vibrancy control" turned up.

> That's all we have so far, though. I'm sure the Starforce drivers take up
> unnecessary CPU cycles which also slow your computer down. Also, imagine
the
> trouble that could cause if all these different copy protections start
> inserting drivers that you didn't know about...

> ******************************

> The StarForce issue has been raised in several other forums, among them:

> http://community.codemasters.com/fo...&threadid=41263
> http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33763491
> http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ul...=3;t=005286;p=1
> http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...sb=5&o=&fpart=1
> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rem...77449~mode=flat

> > Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they
> > mentioned in the EULA?
> > --
> > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

by **Raphael Baraba** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:06:17

> [..] A virus can be coded to
> spred itself, but again, this is not a requirement.

Off the top of my braincell i'd say self-replication (with the help of
an unsuspecting host) is the key element of a virus. If it's not
replicating then it's just malware.

by **Raphael Baraba** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 14:23:20

> [..] A virus can be coded to
> spred itself, but again, this is not a requirement.

Off the top of my braincell i'd say self-replication (with the help of
an unsuspecting host) is one of the key functions of a virus. If it's
not replicating then it's just malware.

by **Dave Henri** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:44:15

>> [..] A virus can be coded to
>> spred itself, but again, this is not a requirement.

> Off the top of my braincell i'd say self-replication (with the help of
> an unsuspecting host) is one of the key functions of a virus. If it's
> not replicating then it's just malware.

Ahh but the unsuspecting host, in this case, is not another program,
trojan or email, but the User himself. By distributing the demo with the
hidden copy protection, the author has simplified distrubution. To be
sure this is not a terrible blight, it does not present a danger to the
stabilty of the net...but it is a secretly spread, difficult to dislodge
program that the user neither asked for, intended to install, or wanted.
It can, through unintended consequences, cause conflicts within a system.

Remember, one of methods of early virus distrubution was to leave an
infected floppy disc with the name of a company president on the label
somewhere near the computers of lower echelon employees. And many virui
were simply exercises in intellect. They caused no harm, some even were
entertaining. But they were still virus'. A program does not need to
harm to be a virus. I am sure the perpetrators of this paticular brand
of copy protection were not intending to circulate a virus...but you have
to ask yourself...if the copy protection contains all the traits of a
virus, is there any difference?

If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it is a duck.

dave henrie

by **Jussi Koukk** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 15:52:54

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:47:06 GMT, "Steve Smith"

Now that I've read that... I had the TRD2 demo installed on my
machine some time ago, and I started having troubles with my bluetooth
dongle (USB) at about the same time. After trying to update the
bluetooth drivers I started getting BSOD's. It got so bad that I had
to reinstall WinXP to fix it. I never had BSOD's with XP before or
after that... makes me think that these StarForce drivers were the
cause.
--
Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

by **Damien Evan** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 16:22:13

Actually, Starforce 3 isn't a virus - it's a trojan horse. A virus is
generally something which self-duplicates and spreads.

by **Swerv** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 18:03:12

> On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:29:23 -0500, Dave Henrie

>> It is a virus in the sense that it installs onto your system
>> WITHOUT your permission. It is a virus in the sense that you
>> CANNOT easily be rid of it. It is a virus in that it adds
>> ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the performance of the program and your
>> system. And apparently, it is a virus because it conflicts with
>> certain hardware configurations, I would suspect it may even be
>> hogging a valuble IRQ.(just a guess tho, no facts)

> None of which has anything to do with the definition of a virus.

Hmm...I would disagree. It's a piece of software that sneaks in on the
back of something else you want, doesn't inform you of its presence, and
is difficult to remove, and presumably something you don't want. While
not a particularly sneaky virus, it sounds an awful lot like viruses
that came with .exe downloads back in the BBS days. Admittedly,
nothing like today's e-mail worms or RPC worms, but similar to a virus
nonetheless.

If a piece of software installs something else without my knowledge and
makes it purposefully difficult to remove (to the point that I probably
have to go get another piece of software just to get rid of it), I
consider it a virus. I also consider any spyware that hijacks IE to
install itself a virus as well, so my definition may be looser than some.

by **Andi Col** » Thu, 17 Jun 2004 18:04:16

The Starforce drivers acn be removed by a tool posted on Codemasters web
page, but TRD2 will no longer run if you remove it If you try to run TRD2
it will re-install the Starforce drivers.

Andi.

--
Remove only one zero to reply.

> This may be a dumb question, but:

> After removing the files in question (assuming that it can be done), does
TRD2
> still run? Or does it re-install the files each time you put the CD in
the
> drive?

> I have the files on my system, but (so far) I haven't noticed any ill
effects.

> Thanks!

> > StarForce is not mentioned in the EULA, so may be considered
illegal...or at
> > least a virus. In the CD Freaks forum, one member posted the results of
> > what this copy protection scheme did to his computer after installing
Black
> > Mirror:

> > ******************************

> > Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by StarForce. On
> > Windows98SE, I encountered two severe problems, both of them related to
some
> > device drivers that were installed by the StarForce copy protection
> > software:

> > Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers; this is
> > completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained to Dreamcatcher and
> > demanded that they provide me with facilities to remove the drivers.
> > Dreamcatcher has since sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that
appears
> > to remove them.

> > The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device drivers for my
USB
> > memory drive, and caused my machine to crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged
in my
> > memory drive. This problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher.

> > Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and find any of
> > these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd, prosync1.sys,
sfhlp01.sys,
> > prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys.

> > Black Mirror [also] provided an in-game gamma setting, but it turned out
to
> > be problematic. Even with brightness turned up all the way, my monitor
is
> > very dark and requires a substantial gamma correction for most games.
The
> > in-game gamma setting didn't provide enough range, but it completely
> > overrides the video card setting. As a result, I was forced to play the
game
> > with all the lights turned off, and my video
> > card "vibrancy control" turned up.

> > That's all we have so far, though. I'm sure the Starforce drivers take
up
> > unnecessary CPU cycles which also slow your computer down. Also, imagine
the
> > trouble that could cause if all these different copy protections start
> > inserting drivers that you didn't know about...

> > ******************************

> > The StarForce issue has been raised in several other forums, among them:

> > http://community.codemasters.com/fo...&threadid=41263
> > http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthr...readid=33763491
> > http://forums.avault.com/cgi-bin/ul...=3;t=005286;p=1
> > http://www.adventurecompanygames.co...sb=5&o=&fpart=1
> > http://www.dslreports.com/forum/rem...77449~mode=flat

> > > Ok. What exactly do these drivers do to harm your system? Are they
> > > mentioned in the EULA?
> > > --
> > > Jussi 'Igor' Koukku

rec.autos.simulators

TOCA Race Driver 2: Beware!!!!

TOCA Race Driver 2: Beware!!!!

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TOCA Race Driver 2: Beware!!!!

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TOCA Race Driver 2: Beware!!!!