rec.autos.simulators

I thought Alison's driving was closest to mine in style (although her skill
level is double mine), mostly because she seemed to be the only one driving
with the idea that the car would need to last more than two laps.  I played
the Kyalami clip first (the one with the flat-out shifting as you call it)
and my only thought was "Oh my God...if you have to drive like that to get a
good lap time, maybe this isn't such a great sim. after all."  Fortunately,
there is a good mix throughout the 11 sessions.

Marc.

- Flat out shifting
- Shifting while in a turn , or at an extreme yaw angle(not recommended
if it was in real life...)
- Using more than the track surface on purpose
- Keeping the car at very high revs all the time

The thought just occured to me; If my dad (who saw these guys in action,
and has been a racer for quite some time) saw the replays, he would be a
bit disappointed; the sim looks fantastic, or IS, fantastic, and my
point is; instead of providing us with "hotlaps", the replays should
have been of more "realistic" type driving. As you can guess, I felt
that the replays were a bit off, although I was amazed at the precison
and speed of all of them.
(My hat is off to all of you guys, great driving!)
IMO, Allisons lap of Silverstone was most resemblant to a "real" lap.

I hope I get some proper views on this, please do not flame - I respect
and give my thanks to all of the beta testers!
See you online:))

Best,
Matthew

IMO, the AI looks very close to what I've seen in film of the real cars
(what do you think Matthew?), but so far, any replay I've seen (not just
tester's) looks very different from the smoothness and control exhibited by
that AI. They still are loose at times, which is to be expected considering
the car's that are modeled, but it's a controlled looseness. Watch the AI,
and then watch a replay. Both from in cab, and in chase view. Use the drive
line as a reference to see the smoothness of both. I was hoping that this
game would finally reward smooth, controlled, realistic driving instead of
the wild driving needed to be fast in most sims but I don't see it. At least
not yet. I hope I do. In my post, I questioned whether it was even possible
to drive the same way as the AI, and still match the AI times. Bandini did a
3:20.XX at Spa on my computer, and yet any replay close to that time that
I've seen is very  wild in comparison.  Same situation with the other
tracks.

David G Fisher
DmndDave

Matthew

I to have been racing for several years (16). I hadn't really thought about
the realism to the degree that you had. It is a game after all. Although I'd
have to agree with your comments, however it is a diffucult judgement to
make not ever having driven one of these old cars. They have very different
characteristics than a modern open wheel car. I do believe that the
simulation lets you get away with things that you could never do in a real
car (heavy crashes for one) but more importantly, for me, I'm amazed at what
it does allow me to do that looks extremely realistic. I whole heartedly
agree with your comments about Alisons lap. Were it reality, her driving
style would hold up very nicely. From what I've read on her site she has
considerable experience in real race cars. It will be very interesting to
see if the fastest laps in GPL will require the driver to do the "more
realistic" things in the***pit. At any rate, I love the game and can drive
it in a way that makes it feel realistic to me. I think they've raised the
bar quite a bit and are very close to the type of realism you mentioned.

Rich

possible to go smoothly, or

I watch the cars in replay from the chase view and that's where you can see
the weaving. I definitely agree about the 95%/110%. Smooth, controlled,  AND
NO CRASHES,  :-)  at 95% is my goal. I'm hoping I can prove myself wrong
eventually about the ability or inability to be able to drive like the AI in
GPL. If anyone has a 3:20 at Spa that looks like an AI driver did it, send
it to me.

David G Fisher
DmndDave

I am with you 100% here.

Agree again, it will be very interesting to see what driving GPL will do
for my real life racingskills, a mate of mine (Edwin of "the paddock"
http://www.racesimcentral.net/) and I drove an
endurance series a few years back, and I would be lying if
I said N2 didn't create a lot of discussion; we found easier ways to
understand our separate needs
for setting up the car to suit our driving styles. And we got to race
each other!

I have never seen as good a sim as GPL, it will probably rob me of all
my spare time, and
make my dad mad because I spend too little time at the workshop!
I'll do my best to make sure it sells over here:))

Cheers,
Matt

Eric

I also agree Alison's lap being the most beautiful. I just saw Dave Mansell's
1:28.1 at Monza and it was very smooth, so hopefully the model caters for smooth
driving :o).

/Christer
--
http://home4.swipnet.se/~w-41236/ (Read all about the "Global online
racing"-proposal under "For developers". Read it a couple of times, cause noone
has understood it the first time they've read it yet :o))

Mike.

Thanks!

Ack!!! I don't know if I like that comment. I'm also not sure if Alison has
any replays of me driving so I'm not sure which ones you looked at.

They may have been misleading even if you watched current versions. A replay
looses a little bit of quality.

I can guarantee you I do not do flat out shifting. If you do so the engine
will be sure to blow in a short amount of time. The only time that I would
ever consider flat out shifting might be on a Qualifying lap and I would
only do that for one lap. The truth is that I don't even do that though for
fear of popping the motor before the lap is finished. Over time I have been
able to develop my shifts such that the lifting of the gas and the shift are
so quick that it appears that it is a flat out shift.

Hrmm, well I usually do not shift while in a turn but there are some long
corners where you have to shift because of gearing considerations. For
example at Monza's Parabolica you need to shift while exiting the corner. I
think if you watch real life racing at Monza you will find others shifting
at the exit of this corner also. When shifting while cornering you must do a
few things all in a fraction of a second. First you must slightly counter
steer when lifting off the gas to shift. The counter-steer is to catch the
lift throttle oversteer. When engaging the new gear and getting back on the
gas you must be very gentle as to not suddenly brake the rear tires loose do
to too low revs (engine braking) or too high revs (spining tires). The whole
action of the shift needs to be smooth so that you do not upset a car on the
edge. The one thing I can say is that while watching a replay from an
external view the cars look like they have a larger yaw angle than what it
feels like when in the***pit.

I'm not sure what replay you are talking about here or what part of the
track but I always keep my tires on the track. The only time tires will slip
off is usally at the exit of the corrner and it was not done on purpose. If
you look at a real life track you will usually see dirt ruts at the exit of
corners. The reason for those dirt ruts is people running wide out of the
corner. I don't know how many times I have run two tires off at the exit of
a corner when racing in real life! Anyway to make a long story short in GPL
I NEVER go off course on purpose! The cars are too delicate to go off course
without upsetting them.

Hrmm, first most of the power in a F1 car (even a 1967 or 68 one) is in the
high revs. I try to keep my car in the power band at all times. Now if you
mean at the very top edge where the redline is the only time I keep it there
is usally when I'm in 5th gear at the end of a long straight. Even if I
geared my 5th gear real short and ran on the rev limiter the rev limiter is
there for a purpose. A car should be able to run on the rev-limeter for
awhile (not forever). The rev-limeter prevents the engine from going to high
where it would be damaged.

Well, I have raced in karts and cars in real life, set a lap record at Sears
Point in my class, won two regional championships, raced in 24 hour
Endurance semi-pro race. I would say my real life skill and experiences are
quite extensive. Now with that all said my replays (again I'm not sure which
ones you are talking about) follow real life lines and techniques as much as
possible. Of course there may be some small differences due to how the sim
reacts to you. For example if you are used to driving a Sedan while racing
and all of a sudden you hoped into a Formula 1 car you are not going to
drive it the same. You will use much of the same techniques with some
adjustments for the differences in the car. The same goes for GPL and real
life racing. I use many of the same techniques when I race in GPL as I would
use in real life. Becasue GPL is a sim though there will be some differences
between real life and GPL and you naturally adjust your driving style to
match what works best for the sim.

Thanks!!!!

Thanks! Well that is my view. I would be interested to hear your reply to my
answers.

Thanks,
John
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

If you're blowing the engine regularly, I suspect it may be more due to
"hopeful" downshifts coming into corners. I say this only because I
catch myself clicking that downshift button quicker than I know can be
good when I overshoot my braking points. Anyway, I couldn't get the
Lotus over 9854 rpm with the clutch out, and as I said, did this with
much malice at first, and continued the abuse for the better part of an
hour.

Michael.

I used to get about four laps on the engine at the Ring before the
collective jumps and early downshifts got it. This was on realistic
damage.

Michael.