rec.autos.simulators

by **Marc Collin** » Wed, 09 Apr 2003 12:46:59

Who has a set-up and/or the driving skills that can run with the AI at 100%
at Marty in a full field practise? A couple of people gave me some very
nice, stable, solid set-ups that are a joy to drive ALONE on the track. I
can even do decent times. But who can use that set-up in traffic/race
conditions where the AI that are 3 - 6 mph faster in the turns boot you up
the ass at every corner and/or the AI who can brake ridiculously late boot
you up the ass at the end of every straight away. 43 cars at Marty means
there's at least one car with that opportunity pretty much twice each lap.
Basically, you cannot hold the inside line against the AI and therefore can
never run competitive laps in traffic.

So instead of a set-up, I would love to see a replay of someone who can run
in concert with the AI at Marty for at least 5 laps. Be clear, I am not
saying there is no one fast enough, I am saying the AI behaviour of ignoring
you and bashing you out of the way combined with what seems like an unfair
grip advantage (but may not be??), makes it damned close to impossible in my
estimation.

I know NR2003 is supposed to be realistic, which means it is going to be
very hard. If I had the same problem at other similar tracks, I would be
happy to blame me and go back to do some more practise. But how can I run
comfortably with 100% AI after 5 minutes of practise at Bristol or Vegas and
experience no problems whatsoever (because I have lots of prior experience),
but Marty is just a huge mess??

Marc

--
****************************************************************************
Marc Collins

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by **Dean Purd** » Wed, 09 Apr 2003 21:24:55

Agreed Marc. I've given up driving there until something changes for the
better, cause it can't get much worse. :-(

--
See ya in the pits,
Dean

I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how
long it's been since I've forgotten anything.

****************************************************************************

> Marc Collins

> Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> to take effect. Reboot now?

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- Show quoted text -

by **MadDAW** » Wed, 09 Apr 2003 21:53:29

I don't know if he has done anything for NR2003 but there was a guy on the
Seirra boards that went by JJ something that tweaked the AI to slow down
their corner entry speeds. Might be worth a look.

MadDAWG

by **William Bradsha** » Thu, 10 Apr 2003 00:37:04

Just for reference, his website can find be found here:

http://www.thegreenflag.com/

-Will

by **John DiFoo** » Thu, 10 Apr 2003 02:34:21

> I don't know if he has done anything for NR2003 but there was a guy on the
> Seirra boards that went by JJ something that tweaked the AI to slow down
> their corner entry speeds. Might be worth a look.

> MadDAWG

The new .ini parameter "AI Inverse Slipcurve Percentage" may have
something to do with this. When I dialed that down 10-20 points on
a few tested tracks, the AI can't go flying around the corners with
abandon anymore...

John DiFool

--
============================================
Reach heaven far too high
============================================

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:31:19

Please tell us more.

Marc

> > I don't know if he has done anything for NR2003 but there was a guy on
the
> > Seirra boards that went by JJ something that tweaked the AI to slow down
> > their corner entry speeds. Might be worth a look.

> > MadDAWG

> The new .ini parameter "AI Inverse Slipcurve Percentage" may have
> something to do with this. When I dialed that down 10-20 points on
> a few tested tracks, the AI can't go flying around the corners with
> abandon anymore...

> John DiFool

> --
> ============================================
> Reach heaven far too high
> ============================================

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:32:04

His tweaks are generally great. He has done one for Marty, but it doesn't
address the speed of the AI at 100%.

Marc

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 10 Apr 2003 11:32:21

Glad it's not just me...

Marc

> Agreed Marc. I've given up driving there until something changes for the
> better, cause it can't get much worse. :-(

> --
> See ya in the pits,
> Dean

> I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how
> long it's been since I've forgotten anything.

> > Who has a set-up and/or the driving skills that can run with the AI at
> 100%
> > at Marty in a full field practise? A couple of people gave me some very
> > nice, stable, solid set-ups that are a joy to drive ALONE on the track.
I
> > can even do decent times. But who can use that set-up in traffic/race
> > conditions where the AI that are 3 - 6 mph faster in the turns boot you
up
> > the ass at every corner and/or the AI who can brake ridiculously late
boot
> > you up the ass at the end of every straight away. 43 cars at Marty
means
> > there's at least one car with that opportunity pretty much twice each
lap.
> > Basically, you cannot hold the inside line against the AI and therefore
> can
> > never run competitive laps in traffic.

> > So instead of a set-up, I would love to see a replay of someone who can
> run
> > in concert with the AI at Marty for at least 5 laps. Be clear, I am not
> > saying there is no one fast enough, I am saying the AI behaviour of
> ignoring
> > you and bashing you out of the way combined with what seems like an
unfair
> > grip advantage (but may not be??), makes it damned close to impossible
in
> my
> > estimation.

> > I know NR2003 is supposed to be realistic, which means it is going to be
> > very hard. If I had the same problem at other similar tracks, I would
be
> > happy to blame me and go back to do some more practise. But how can I
run
> > comfortably with 100% AI after 5 minutes of practise at Bristol or Vegas
> and
> > experience no problems whatsoever (because I have lots of prior
> experience),
> > but Marty is just a huge mess??

> > Marc

> > --

****************************************************************************

> > Marc Collins

> > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change
> > to take effect. Reboot now?

****************************************************************************

- Show quoted text -

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 11 Apr 2003 04:37:04

I'm not convinced the AI is the problem. I have been reading messages in
different threads and it doesn't sound like anybody is running less than mid
20's, but the real life track record is in the 19's. So it seems to me what
you need to do is not slow down the AI but rather give the humans some more
traction. I just checked the track.ini, and the grip numbers are already
pretty high, but the track_tire_heat value is much higher than the other
tracks I compared it to. In fact I think it's a typo, it was 1.00 in NR2002
and it's 1.87 in NR2003. I suggest setting track_tire_heat to 0.87
(assuming the 1 was a typo) and seeing if the lap times get more realistic.

by **Marc Collin** » Fri, 11 Apr 2003 07:32:42

The problem is that people who can run laps at the same speed as the AI --
or even Q on pole consistently -- cannot race with them. They have too much
(relative) grip in the corner, can brake later than you going into the
corner and, most importantly, ignore your presence as a slightly
slower/hobbled entity and knock you out of the way as though you weren't
there. Even if the AI had an advantage, it would be hard for them to get
ahead of you if you qualified ahead of them, were faster than them on each
lap and held the inside line, but they don't see either of those as any
reason to delay their progress. So the first time they brake "too late"
into the corner, you are knocked to the outside and/or into the wall and
that's it. Unfortunately, it appears that that's the extent of Marty... I
wish it wasn't so and that's why I wanted to see what others were
experiencing. Try it first yourself. Then tell us what you think.

Marc

> I'm not convinced the AI is the problem. I have been reading messages in
> different threads and it doesn't sound like anybody is running less than
mid
> 20's, but the real life track record is in the 19's. So it seems to me
what
> you need to do is not slow down the AI but rather give the humans some
more
> traction. I just checked the track.ini, and the grip numbers are already
> pretty high, but the track_tire_heat value is much higher than the other
> tracks I compared it to. In fact I think it's a typo, it was 1.00 in
NR2002
> and it's 1.87 in NR2003. I suggest setting track_tire_heat to 0.87
> (assuming the 1 was a typo) and seeing if the lap times get more
realistic.

> > His tweaks are generally great. He has done one for Marty, but it
doesn't
> > address the speed of the AI at 100%.

> > Marc

by **Eldre** » Fri, 11 Apr 2003 09:29:41

>I just checked the track.ini, and the grip numbers are already
>pretty high, but the track_tire_heat value is much higher than the other
>tracks I compared it to. In fact I think it's a typo, it was 1.00 in NR2002
>and it's 1.87 in NR2003. I suggest setting track_tire_heat to 0.87
>(assuming the 1 was a typo) and seeing if the lap times get more realistic.

Good grief - if it's *that* easy to give yourself better traction, what good
are the hotlap sites/offline leagues? I'll 'assume' that you can't get away
with that online...

Eldred
--
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPLRank:-1.680
MonsterRank: +334.169
N2002 Rank:+17.59

Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 11 Apr 2003 11:38:50

As I understand it when you are online if your track.ini differs from the
servers the server will download its track.ini to you, so no, it shouldn't
cause any effect online. Unless the server changes it, in which case
everybody gets it.

As far as the hotlap sites go, even if you don't mess with the track.ini I
question how fair the sites are. Try changing your track conditions to 40
degrees and cloudy and see how much your lap times improve. And you don't
even have to mess with any files to do that. How do I know, when looking at
a hot lap site, whether that 1:10 at the Glen was done with the default
weather conditions or whether the guy changed them to give himself a better
time? I don't know if there is any way to check that.

by **Marc Collin** » Fri, 11 Apr 2003 22:56:14

That's why it's only races that really count for anything....

Marc

> As I understand it when you are online if your track.ini differs from the
> servers the server will download its track.ini to you, so no, it shouldn't
> cause any effect online. Unless the server changes it, in which case
> everybody gets it.

> As far as the hotlap sites go, even if you don't mess with the track.ini I
> question how fair the sites are. Try changing your track conditions to 40
> degrees and cloudy and see how much your lap times improve. And you don't
> even have to mess with any files to do that. How do I know, when looking
at
> a hot lap site, whether that 1:10 at the Glen was done with the default
> weather conditions or whether the guy changed them to give himself a
better
> time? I don't know if there is any way to check that.

> > Good grief - if it's *that* easy to give yourself better traction, what
> good
> > are the hotlap sites/offline leagues? I'll 'assume' that you can't get
> away
> > with that online...

> > Eldred
> > --
> > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
> > GPLRank:-1.680
> > MonsterRank: +334.169
> > N2002 Rank:+17.59

> > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats
> you
> > with experience...
> > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

rec.autos.simulators

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"

NR2003 Marty against the AI--update: I should have said "in traffic"