rec.autos.simulators

But since the thing is open, I wanted to ask the authorities on that
subject (Alison and Michael come to mind, but I'm interested in input
from all sides) about their opinion on some minor modifications that
seem worthwhile to me:

1) Lubricating the bungee cord with some acid free grease. The wheel
shows a bit too much of resistance for my liking, and doesn't always
center with 100% precision. Would lubricating help this? Or will the
cord dissolve? And is it possible to lubricate the actual bearings
without ripping everything apart?

2) Increasing the steering travel by removing/relocating the limiting
pins. There are two screws that limit the wheel travel. I thought I
might remove one of them and install the other in a new hole in the
center. In theory, this should increase the possible wheel travel from
approx 290 to 350. Will this work?

I'm looking forward to your input.

--
Wolfgang Preiss   \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Personally, I'd stay away from lubbing the cord itself.  I don't have any
experiances to back that up...  but it just feals bad :-) and personally I
don't think it will make a difference.  Increasing the tension on the cord
will help clear up the play at center, but will increase the resistance over
all.  Slacking the cord will do the opposite (make both worse).  You can
lube the shaft with a thin grease or oil without taking the shaft apart.
Just apply it at the contact points and work it in.  Be warned though...
the thinner the lube, the more mess you are going to have.  If you are
carefull, you can take the shaft apart and reassemble it without any
problems.  Remember that those screws are very easy to cross thread though,
and that could be the last time you ever get it back together properly!  I
took mine apart and I use a silicon lube.  It lasts a long time, and is
jelly-like similar to Vasaline,  so you don't have to re-apply it often.
And it doesn't break down plastic/*** like Vasaline.  Once you start
putting Vasaline on seals, you have to keep doing it because Vasaline
actually dries out seals over time.  ( I used to be a 'Pool Man' while I was
in school, more leaks in that biz come from people putting Vasaline on
seals...  it works initially,  but it dries and cracks the *** and makes
it brittle and dry... even in water...  if you don't keep slapping some sort
of lube on them) enough lube talk...  :-)

What I did, was put a 'thicker' bungee in.  It gives a more constant tension
through the range of motion, and doesn't get pulled out of wack over time.
It is also less prone to 'soft-spots'  like the sloppy center.  You can also
retro-fit it with an cam/spring idea, that's a fairly popular way of getting
rid of the bungee all together,  there are a handfull of sites that
demonstrate it.  It's a good bit of work though, and you might have to cut
the top of the housing to accomidate it...

Again, I'd stay away from that as well...  pots generally give the most
'noise' closer to the end of travel.  You'll see more 'jittery' movement at
the ends.  When you calibrate your wheel,  you do so for the range of motion
that you have available.  So therefore, in the game/sim you won't actually
be able to turn the wheels of the car any further because max=max.  All you
end up doing is along these lines:  if you used to turn the wheel 30deg, the
car wheels turned (for sake of argument) 30deg.  If you increase the travel
now when you turn the wheel 30deg, the car wheels turn 27deg.   For the
slight increase in precision,  you introduce inconsistencies when the wheel
is either full left or full right.  And you will probably go through
steering pots quicker,  and put more ware on the bungee.  Kind of like the
trick for the pedals (only the reverse)  by limiting the travel on the
pedals by putting a block or something at the back,  you don't throw as many
springs and the pots last longer...

Cheers

Joe Walsh
Supercity Internet Services

If you do lube the steering shaft,  whatever you use for lube,  keep it away
from the steering pot!  That's another plus for something like a silicon
lube (and that's NOT the silicon caulk that you put on your tub BTW)  It
stays where you put it and won't run down the shaft and get in/on the pot...

Cheers

Joe Walsh
Supercity Internet Services

Thanks in advance,

Trips

http://members.xoom.com/ProPedals/

--------------------

http://www.monmouth.com/~lw4750/index.html
or
http://www.oz.net/~wottenad/frames.htm

and you can find some nifty little hints on
http://huizen.dds.nl/~jjcox/index.htm

I'll have to take a picture or two of mine one of these days!

Cheers

Joe Walsh
Supercity Internet Services

I`m thinking about buying a wheel, so I checked out a few in pc world (no intention
of buying from there though), Ugh! Those really light plasticy ones with that
terrible 'click' right in the centre! What a pile of crap! Imagine trying to drive
with one of those!

Give you steering pot a clean out with some electrial circuit board
cleaner ( tuner cleaner etc ) while you can get at it. You can also
cut out a piece of plastic from the bottom of you T2 so you can get at
this pot in the future to likewise clean it without having to
disasemble the whole thing.

You may like to replace that pot with a high quality one. But perhaps
this can't be considered a minor modification.

Use a lighter gague cord to reduce resistance or a heavier gague cord
to increase same. Forget about lubricating to modify resistance.
Lubricating will make things smoother, and may even remove minor
amounts of slack from the system, but it won't effect resistance
levels. Bungee cord, which used to be called shock cord before bungee
jumping was invented, is sold in many different sizes from sailing
boat shops.

Don't just tighten or loosen the existing cord. The cord needs a
certain amount of movement or you'll run out of cord streach before
you reach full lock.

Actualy this is good IMO. Real car steering wheels don't centre
exactly in the same spot each time either. Nor do they click or snap
when at the dead centre position. I quite like the smooth non-clicking
non-snaping way the T2 acts in this respect.

Lubricating the cord will not help this. It probably wouldn't dissole
but it be somewhat of a mess. Don't do it. See below.

Perhaps. But as you've got it largely apart the rest of the matter
shouldn't be that much extra work. What I did was disasemble the lot.
Made some washers from .5mm teflon sheet and placed them between the
various moving pieces. Also lubbricated all contact sufaces with
teflon greese - a clean white grease that's ideal for plastic
available from hobby shops. If you can't find where to buy .5mm teflon
sheets from - the white plastic looking overlays sold as covers for
irons ( as in ironing your clothes ) are such teflon sheets and should
do fine.

No. You will note that the two lugs, on which are mounted small
rollers for the cord, just pass by the two existing pins with minimal
clearence. The trouble with a central pin is that it can't be placed
as far out fron the shaft centre as the existing pins. Being closer in
does not leave enough clerance for the said roller-lugs. Good idea to
increase steering resolution but the structure of the design doesn't
lend itself to this procedure in practice.

FWIW - best of luck.

Phillip McNelley

[snip]

Some great info, this! Actually, I thought I would be using Vaseline
since this was the lube of choice for *** and plastic parts in the
army when I was there. Good thing you warned me. What's the usual
application of this silicon lube, i.e. what do I have too ask for when
shopping?

This sounds good, esp. since it's inexpensive and easy to do.

I don't know... won't springs wear even faster than bungee cord?

[snip]

I'm thinking "GPL" all the time while doing this, so all I need is
more precision around the center. :) Full lock is needed rarely in
this sim, AFAI can tell.

My initial idea didn't work, though. I drilled an additional mounting
hole into the dash, right in the middle between the original stopping
pins - only to find out that this limits wheel travel even more than
the original setup: the "rollers" that lead the bungee won't get by
that single pin. Ah, well, I'll try cleaning the pot, replacing the
bungee and lubbing the axle. That should give some more steering
accuracy. Thanks for the tips!

--
Wolfgang Preiss   \ E-mail copies of replies to this posting are welcome.

Yes...  if you get too soft of a spring,  and if you get too stiff of a
spring, and don't use the bungee it's a bear to crank the wheel from center.
That's why I ended up using one on each side,  with a bit of bungee attached
between the spring and the shaft.  Basically all you do is cut the ends of
the bungee to give enough room to put a spring in anchored to the same spot
the bungee was.   A tighter spring is hardest to move when it's fully
contracted, but the bungee makes it easier to get things rolling so to
speak.  I found that once I tightened the original bungee...  I was
tightening it every couple of weeks....

.....

.....

Vaseline is fine plastic to metal, plastic->plastic etc...  We used to use
Vaseline on our oar locks when we rowed.... (carbon-fiber to resin)  The
thing I don't like about it is it's too greasy, and it breaks down *** or
synthetic *** (usually a***blend)  why do you think they tell you
never to use Vaseline with a ***?.  I have never actually bought a tube
of silicon lube :-)  I still have my tube from my swimming pool tool box
years ago....  the stuff comes in a toothpaste-like tube generally.  The
only time I've ever re-applied it on anything is on the *** boot on my TM
Flight stick...  Just a little bit to keep it from 'squeaking'  and it helps
break in a new stick quicker so you don't have to 'strong-arm' it right out
of the box.

The silicon lube that I use is packaged by Hayward called 'Jacks formula
427' (My rep at Hayward was named Jack...  and he was at ext. 427 which
always kind of spooked me...)   You should be able to get it at any Swimming
Pool parts shop that carries Hayward parts, or they should be able to
produce a reasonable substitute.  I can't say that I've ever seen it
anywhere else,  to tell the truth,  I've never looked for it because I've
had this tube for about 7 years now and it still about 90% full :-)  I would
think that a good hardware store, or even automotive should have a silicon
lube of some sorts.  The stuff is great,  it lasts,  doesn't gum things up,
it's not too greasy,  water proof.  Careful where you put it though,  it's
very hard to get off of things that you may or may not have wanted lubed up
;-)

Cheers

Joe Walsh