rec.autos.simulators

BOGUS Reactor Ads

David Gar

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by David Gar » Sun, 03 Nov 1996 04:00:00



> >Whats up with this blatantly false advertising I see in PC Gamer and other
> >mags with the two screen shots of ICR2.

> >I can make my Indycar game look as shitty as the left picture too if I turn
> >off all the details they turned off.  And if I turn them all on I can make it
> >looked like the one on the right and I don't need any $200 card to do it.

> >I was actually considering this card until I see that they have to resort
> >to cheap misrepresentation to sell their products.

Another example of someone that is evidently new to this "virtual" sport
and doesnt have
a understanding of Framerate and "filtering". Video is 30 fps, not too
bad when you consider
that thats faster than the mind can calculate.
Also someone that gets irritated easy because he might not have a lousy
149.99 to afford the
upgrade, Hell, I go buy almost 3 games these days and its that much. I
paid 300 bucks
for my Stealth 64 when it came out! 149.99 is not bad for the hottest
card on the market!
   -DG
Mark Smi

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Mark Smi » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Whats up with this blatantly false advertising I see in PC Gamer and other mags
with the two screen shots of ICR2.

I can make my Indycar game look as shitty as the left picture too if I turn off
all the details they turned off.  And if I turn them all on I can make it looked
like the one on the right and I don't need any $200 card to do it.

I was actually considering this card until I see that they have to resort to
cheap misrepresentation to sell their products.

Eric T. Busc

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Eric T. Busc » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00

Because of the lead time for printing magazines, the add has not been
amended to show that both versions are running at the same framerate
~30fps.  This disclaimer has been added to the ICR2 pictures on
Intergraph's webpage.  To get equal framerates on the two versions, you
need to turn off quite a few of the details (almost all of them) in the
original.  With the Rendition Ready version on my slow P120, I get
30fps at full detail (including full mirror detail, 16-bit graphics,
anti-aliasing, bi-linear filtering, perspective correction, etc...).
Even without these added enhancements, I would still be lucky to get
half that framerate with full graphical detail on the original.

BTW, the card is only $149 now.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/



Mark Smi

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Mark Smi » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00



>>Whats up with this blatantly false advertising I see in PC Gamer and other mags
>>with the two screen shots of ICR2.

>>I can make my Indycar game look as shitty as the left picture too if I turn off
>>all the details they turned off.  And if I turn them all on I can make it
>>looked like the one on the right and I don't need any $200 card to do it.

>There is no way you can make ICR2 look as good without a Verite-based card
>(any of the three that are currently available).  Your current video card
>won't anti-alias for one thing, and when you add the consideration that both
>screenshots are runnning about 30fps, you can see why there's so many details
>turned off.  

>As an example, I run a P5-166.  Before I got the Reactor card, I could not run
>withobjects, asphalt, or grass texture on and still get an acceptable frame
>rate.  *With* the Reactor, I run with *EVERYTHING* on and it's in the
>neighborhood of 30-35 fps.

>>I was actually considering this card until I see that they have to resort to
>>cheap misrepresentation to sell their products.

>Your loss.  Intergraph is one of the best companies in terms of product
>support I've ever seen in the computer industry (and I've been doing this
>stuff for almost 20 years).

My P5-166 with Diamond Stealth 3400xl is getting 26-34 fps right NOW with full
details - everything maxxed!!  That is will full field with all cars forward and
behind displayed - pace lap is around 26fps but once we spread out it moves to
the 30's

Granted I don't get the textured sky or transparent smoke but if I'm not
mistaken you have to have SPECIAL versions of the programs to get those features
anyway.  I don't plan to re-buy existing games and am not sure that these
minimal features are worth $150 and the sacrifice of my already kick-ass video
card.

Eric T. Busc

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Eric T. Busc » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00

I was just curious to know what kind of framerates you are getting with
Quake (assuming you have it).  If you don't know how to check, with
version 1.06 you can use the timedemo command.  Just type 'timedemo
demoX' at the console, were X is 1, 2, or 3.  Quake will run the
specified demo and report back your average fps.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/



Temporary Accoun

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Temporary Accoun » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00


> Whats up with this blatantly false advertising I see in PC Gamer and other mags
> with the two screen shots of ICR2.

> I can make my Indycar game look as shitty as the left picture too if I turn off
> all the details they turned off.  And if I turn them all on I can make it looked
> like the one on the right and I don't need any $200 card to do it.

> I was actually considering this card until I see that they have to resort to
> cheap misrepresentation to sell their products.

How do you justify this remark about *blatantly false advertising*?
For your information, when I run unaccelerated ICR2 and wish to keep
the frame rate high, the auto frame rate function will often turn off
quite a bit of detail.  When I run Rendition ICR2, I get full 3d detail
with antialiasing at 30fps dropping to 25+ fps in heavy traffic and we
are talking about racing with the full field of cars.  Rendition ICR2
will run full detail at greater than 50fps if you turn off the real time
limiter, but then the game plays like it is in fast forward.  Even if
you could run unaccelerated ICR2 with full details on at 30fps, the
quality of the detail on the Reactor is far better.  The scenery in the
background is photorealistic, the lettering on the sides of the cars and
trackside billboards are very clearly readable due to filtering - no
jaggie, pixelated textures.  The control of the car is very smooth, I
doubt that my CPU (P133) is breaking a sweat.

But actually, you are correct in a way, the print ads are a form of
false advertising in that it does NOT show the true power of the
Reactor!  I think that a screen shot at Laguna Seca would be more
impressive.  I also had reservations about buying the Reactor from the
screenshots until I read an article about the Reactor and ICR2 by
Eric Cid.  Eric said it first and I'll repeat, you have to see it
running to truly appreciate it.  Based upon Eric's recommendation (he
has a Reactor and an Orchid Righteous3D so he is not displaying any
overt biases) I bought a Reactor 3 weeks ago.

Regarding the *cheap misrepresentation to sell their product* statement,
let me tell you about Intergraph. The salesperson was very polite, took
my order and it was delivered less than 18hours later.  I had a question
about the max resolutions supported and asked on the video NG.  I
received an unsolicited email from Intergraph detailing the answer.  The
price was reduced recently to 149 (I paid 199).  I am past the 14 day
return window but Integraph cheerfully credited my charge card with $50.
They were under no obligation to do so whatsoever.  Does the phrase
unsurpassed customer service mean anything to you?  If you follow this
NG or the video NG, you'll see that I am not an isolated case.

In case you didn't know, Integraph is a highly respected company in the
professional 3D CAD workstation market where customers pay big bucks and
expect world class customer service.  The fact that their newly formed
consumer division carries on this tradition makes the Reactor such a
remarkable bargain, especially at a price lower than the competition.

And NO, I don't own Integraph stock -- YET.

Regards.. Ed

Mark Smi

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Mark Smi » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00

OKAY - I'm almost sold on trying the Reactor card.  What the hell - its only
$149 and I've wasted that on 2-3 lousy games before.  I do have a few questions
for anyone who know...

How many games out there support it?  I don't wanna get caught up in a N64 scam
and only get 2-3 games to go with my hardware purchase.

Is MMX gonna make this card obsolete next year or will Reactor support the new
MMX technology?  I'm already on the upgrade path for MMX when it releases.

What upcoming titles are going to use the REACTOR card.

Are REACTOR titles full remakes of original titles or are they hacks like that
Descent game that game with my Diamond Edge 3D and only had 7 levels.

What are the maximum resolutions and scan refresh rates for this card.  I cannot
give up my 1280x1024 windows at 65000 colors.

Is this card supported under Win95?

Does it work with DirectX?

Can it swap resolutions and color depth without rebooting Windows?

I guess that's about it.  If the Reactor can do everything it claims and not
***up my current way of life I will order one TODAY!

David Spark

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by David Spark » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00


>Whats up with this blatantly false advertising I see in PC Gamer and other
>mags with the two screen shots of ICR2.

>I can make my Indycar game look as shitty as the left picture too if I turn
>off all the details they turned off.  And if I turn them all on I can make it
>looked like the one on the right and I don't need any $200 card to do it.

>I was actually considering this card until I see that they have to resort
>to cheap misrepresentation to sell their products.

What they were trying to do is show you the level of detail you get if you
set up both video boards for a fluid frame rate, say 25-30 fps. I don't
think there was any intention to mislead, in fact, if you look somewhere in
the fine print, it explains what they did.

As to turning on all detail and making it look like the Reactor screenshot,
I'm afraid you're wrong. The Rendition chip does anti-aliasing, bilinear
filtering and perspective correction, none of which your SVGA video board
can do at any frame rate. You have to see the difference to believe it,
especially when it's all happening at a solid 30 fps.

Dave (davids) Sparks
Late Night League
http://www.sequoia-dev.com/Hawaii/latenite.html

Eric Franze

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Eric Franze » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00



> I was just curious to know what kind of framerates you are getting with
> Quake (assuming you have it).  If you don't know how to check, with
> version 1.06 you can use the timedemo command.  Just type 'timedemo
> demoX' at the console, were X is 1, 2, or 3.  Quake will run the
> specified demo and report back your average fps.

> --

> Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
> Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/



> > the sacrifice of my already kick-ass video card.

  What is the vquake update for on Intergraph's web site?  I downloaded it
and after moving the files, when I run the vquake program, it says only the
registered version can accept changed files or something like that.
Eric T. Busc

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Eric T. Busc » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00



Currently there are not many.  You can see a list of upcoming Rendition
Ready titles at http://www.racesimcentral.net/;In
addition to these titles, all games using Win95's Direct3D will also
benefit from full hardware acceleration.  It is also very fast at VESA
2.0 SVGA modes (just slightly slower then the ET-6000 cards).  Since it
has on board VESA, you don't need SciTech's Display Doctor to run Duke
Nukem or Quake in Hi-RES.

releases.

No, the main benefit of MMX is the ability to run 24-bit color at 8-bit
speeds.  MMX and 3D accelerators are not mutually exclusive.

See: http://www.racesimcentral.net/;(also all Direct3D
titles)

I'm not sure what your asking.  The games that are bundled with the
Reactor consist of one full game (ICR2) one patch for Quake (it also
included the SW CD if you don't have it) and two trial versions
(Monster Truck Madness and Hellbender).  The upcoming titles are all
new games that are designed to be enhanced with any of the Rendition
cards.

At 16-bit color the max resolution is 1280x1024.  There are no 24-bit
modes, and at 32-bit the max is 800x600.  For more details see:
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Yes.

Yes.  It supports DirectDraw and Direct3D.  It is also a very fast with
MPEGs.  

Yes.  In the Display control panel, you can choose to include to Show
Setting on Task Bar (basically the same as the QuickRes PowerToy).  You
can change resolutions and color depth on the fly.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://www.racesimcentral.net/~ebusch/

Eric T. Busc

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Eric T. Busc » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00

You first have to upgrade the basic Quake to 1.06 before you can use
the new Vquake.  There is a ~400k patch that will upgrade your version
from 1.01-1.06.  Get it from:
ftp://206.86.0.31/idstuff/quake/q101-106.zip

BTW, there should be another (even faster) VQuake beta available soon.

--

Emory University Graduate School of Arts & Sciences
Nascar Setups Page: http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~ebusch/



John Marti

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by John Marti » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00


> Whats up with this blatantly false advertising I see in PC Gamer and other mags
> with the two screen shots of ICR2.

> I can make my Indycar game look as shitty as the left picture too if I turn off
> all the details they turned off.  And if I turn them all on I can make it looked
> like the one on the right and I don't need any $200 card to do it.

> I was actually considering this card until I see that they have to resort to
> cheap misrepresentation to sell their products.

If what you are saying is that your vanilla ICR2 looks as good as the 3d
enhanced version,you might want to take another look...
Apart from some solid graphic improvements,you'll be running a higher
graphical content at a nicely higher speed..
Take a look at the pics I've put up on my website!
--
rgs, John.
< http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/2444/ >
Todd Benz

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Todd Benz » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00



>Subject: Re: BOGUS Reactor Ads
>Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 20:31:29 GMT


>>>Whats up with this blatantly false advertising I see in PC Gamer and other mags
>>>with the two screen shots of ICR2.

>>>I can make my Indycar game look as shitty as the left picture too if I turn off
>>>all the details they turned off.  And if I turn them all on I can make it
>>>looked like the one on the right and I don't need any $200 card to do it.

>>There is no way you can make ICR2 look as good without a Verite-based card
>>(any of the three that are currently available).  Your current video card
>>won't anti-alias for one thing, and when you add the consideration that both
>>screenshots are runnning about 30fps, you can see why there's so many details
>>turned off.  

>>As an example, I run a P5-166.  Before I got the Reactor card, I could not run
>>withobjects, asphalt, or grass texture on and still get an acceptable frame
>>rate.  *With* the Reactor, I run with *EVERYTHING* on and it's in the
>>neighborhood of 30-35 fps.

>>>I was actually considering this card until I see that they have to resort to
>>>cheap misrepresentation to sell their products.

>>Your loss.  Intergraph is one of the best companies in terms of product
>>support I've ever seen in the computer industry (and I've been doing this
>>stuff for almost 20 years).

>My P5-166 with Diamond Stealth 3400xl is getting 26-34 fps right NOW with full
>details - everything maxxed!!  That is will full field with all cars forward and
>behind displayed - pace lap is around 26fps but once we spread out it moves to
>the 30's
>Granted I don't get the textured sky or transparent smoke but if I'm not
>mistaken you have to have SPECIAL versions of the programs to get those features
>anyway.  I don't plan to re-buy existing games and am not sure that these
>minimal features are worth $150 and the sacrifice of my already kick-ass video
>card.

ICR2 the FULL version, comes with the Reactor card, I sold my old copy.  Quake
looks 200% better as well, I can't stand playing without the Rendition board
version, it is a HUGE difference.

l8r,

Todd

Choh

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Choh » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00


says...

  I don't see any blantant false advertising. What mag are you reading?
The one in Dec PC Gamer plainly says "graphics options for ~30 fps" right
across the pictures. To get 30fps on my p166 it almost looks like the crappy
pic on the left...until my reactor comes.

Later..Chohan

Todd Benz

BOGUS Reactor Ads

by Todd Benz » Wed, 06 Nov 1996 04:00:00



>Subject: Re: BOGUS Reactor Ads
>Date: Tue, 05 Nov 1996 21:33:53 GMT
>OKAY - I'm almost sold on trying the Reactor card.  What the hell - its only
>$149 and I've wasted that on 2-3 lousy games before.  I do have a few questions
>for anyone who know...
>How many games out there support it?  I don't wanna get caught up in a N64 scam
>and only get 2-3 games to go with my hardware purchase.
>Is MMX gonna make this card obsolete next year or will Reactor support the new
>MMX technology?  I'm already on the upgrade path for MMX when it releases.
>What upcoming titles are going to use the REACTOR card.
>Are REACTOR titles full remakes of original titles or are they hacks like that
>Descent game that game with my Diamond Edge 3D and only had 7 levels.
>What are the maximum resolutions and scan refresh rates for this card.  I cannot
>give up my 1280x1024 windows at 65000 colors.
>Is this card supported under Win95?
>Does it work with DirectX?
>Can it swap resolutions and color depth without rebooting Windows?
>I guess that's about it.  If the Reactor can do everything it claims and not
>screw up my current way of life I will order one TODAY!

You REALLY need to do a LITTLE research, like looking at their web page, all
of this is answered there.

http://www.intergraph.com/ics/reactor/

l8r,

Todd


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