rec.autos.simulators

OK.  After spending a couple of hours this weekend painting and racing in
Nascar1, I thought I'd throw in a couple of suggestions, that are relatively
minor but might add to the game.  I'm probably too late for Nascar2, but if
there's a 2.1 or 3, then here's a couple of ideas:

1.  In paintkit, find some way of allowing folks to view their finished
product without having to exit paintkit and load Nascar.  I don't know how
much time I've wasted going back and forth between the two. Also, I've been
*borrowing* corporate logos from the net to incorporate into my car.  Having
some way of importing and enlarging/reducing these pictures (I'll do the
gif/jpg to pcx conversion) would simplify things.

2.  Movement in the pit crew.  Now I know the possibility of not always having
the first stall has been mentioned, but I'd like to see some movement among
the boys.  At the very least have the dumb sign waving as you enter the pits.  
It'd be really cool to see someone clean the window during a 4 tire change, or
having someone hand you a water bottle.

3.  Don't just have the wrecked cars disappear.  Why can't there be some track
official vehicles come out during yellows and remove the cars?  Now if yellow
flags have been turned off then the disappearing trick would be acceptable,
but why not have tow trucks come out and remove the vehicles?  No need for
ambulances and more morbid scenes, just come out and remove vehicles that
can't make it back under their own power.

4.  Will we be able to go behind the wall to get more serious repairs done?  
And a winner's circle might work too.

5.  Take it easy on the yellows.  I'm not sure what the criteria is, but right
now any little bump causes a yellow.  If a car loses control, then fine, but
the race this weekend in Atlanta had a couple of cars losing control, then
regain it without any other contact, so no yellow flag came out.

6. Up to the minute stats.  Who has the fastest lap?  Who's made the biggest
jump in positions?  Who just had the fastest lap?  This might sound crazy, but
I'd like to know how long each driver has gone between pit stops (you know the
real Nascar folks keep track of it).

One complaint about the Nascar2 demo - the actual viewing area from the
***pit seems awfully small.  Is this how the shipping version will be?

And of course I'd like my own track editor so I can make my own course, but
I'll understand it if that never materializes.  :)

If any of these are in Nascar2, or are completely unreasonable, let me
know.  Thanks.

  Andy Backa        The only skills I have the patience to learn are

                    - Calvin and Hobbes

  Chewey Pages: http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Comments on comments :

I agree.  The NASCAR Racing 1 viewing area is better.  Maybe its not as
realistic - however - it is already more difficult to judge your own
position on the track in the simulation than in a real race car, where you
can use side viewing and feel to help.  I also think the cars - although
with better detail - look less real in the NASCAR Racing 2 demo.  Once you
get going - the original cars look pretty good.

A general comment is that too much emphasis is being placed on graphics.  I
care a lot more about the simulation.  The NASCAR Racing 1 graphics were
good and the ICR2 graphics with a nice video accelerator (yes - the
Rendition) are excellent.  I really don't care to gets lots of graphics
that I can't turn on anyway without a Pentium Pro 500Mhz.  The frame rates
need to stay near max in order to run competitively anyway - especially
when competing against real humans who get a bit torqued when bumped into
the wall.

Very useful and seemingly easy to implement.  In addition, I would like the
crew chief to tell me when the leader crosses the start finish line every
3rd lap or so.  More if he is coming up behind me.  I know the spotter does
tell me the leader is coming up behind me - but he only says it once and
doesn't say when he is crossing the line.  In a real race - the crew chief
or spotter says "Leader crossing start-finish line .......  now!"  

Maybe someday someone will create a functional one.  I think a lot of sim
racers would pay good money for one from Papyrus.  I would happily pay
between $50-100 ... hint.  However, if Papyrus plans to put out lots of
track packs - they might make more money this way.  As it stands to date -
with only a single track pack - the editor might be a better bet.  Plus the
track pack would probably still sell, since modelling a real track in an
editor still requires a lot of research and work.

Everyone agrees.  Hopefully this will be better in NASCAR Racing 2.

Yeah.  I also want the tow truck to drag me back if I run out of gas or
something.  This will make the cautions entertaining.

Also, let me fix my car a little at a time - making multiple pit stops
under caution.  If they can't get the job done - fine - I will race with a
slightly bent car.  

Have the computer cars return to the track after 20, 30 or more laps in the
pits (or garage).  A broken rear end, clutch, gear box etc. should not
sideline the car for the remainder of 200 lap race.  They should return
after some number of laps off the track.  In addition, a car with a failing
motor might run slow (and out of the racing groove) for a number of laps -
maybe even all race long (like Daryll Waltrip does).  This will create
moving obstacles (like Daryll Waltrip is).  All these things just add to
the entertainment and realism.  

Finally, lets have some better pit strategy from the computer cars.  Here
are some things for them not to do.
1. Pit with just a few laps remaining and lots of fuel in the tank.
2. Don't pit under caution when more than 50% to a green flag stop and all
the other leaders pitting.  In general, the leaders should pit together.
The cars further back might gamble on track position when around 50% to a
green flag stop.  When 75% of more to green flag stop, no lead lap cars
should stay out - only lap cars might want to gamble on a another quick
caution.
3. Stay out under caution and then pit when the green flag is dropped -
this happens often - especially with lap cars.  I like that lap cars gamble
and stay out - but not to pit immediately when the green drops - this isn't
*** its just stupid.

This stuff is more important to me than lots of new graphics.

Cute. don't really care too much.  I wouldn't want this to take away from
other development in the simulation aspects of the game.

One suggestion to your suggestions:

Tell me nobody else out there ever made a Turn 1 parking lot and then
tried to drive through it unscathed.

Man, imagine a 39-car no-yellow no-disappearing-wrecked-car race at
Bristol.  What a NIGHTMARE that would be!

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       NASCAR in the Northeast - the best racing nobody's seen - Yet

I run those in summer. We have a 1/4 mile high banked oval and start 130,
yeah I said One hundred thirty, cars and go 200 laps...no cautions.
Enduros are the best!!

Gene

You're only young once, but you can stay immature forever.

I can't wait for VR goggles and force-feedback steering wheels.

Another interesting thing which all racing games seem to be missing is wind
noise. I raced a Mazda RX 7 for a couple of years, and around 100 mph, the
wind noise coming in through the open windows would be approaching the loudness
of the engine. (Since I only did road courses, I never got going much faster
than that). But I'm thinking that this might be another cue that would help
gauge speed. (In computer racing games, I'm always overcooking turns - in
a real car, I never got close (unless my brakes were faded)).

-- Ulrich

writes:

I like this idea. Having to go into the main program to view your car can
be frustrating if you are trying to make the perfect car. The only thing I
would object to is manipulating the pictures. It would take alot of new
code to accomplish this. Personally, I'd rather make my car in PSP.

This would be a bonus. I myself am also more concerned with realism than
graphical bonuses.

I agree with this. Having the wrecked car on the track magically disappear
 just isn't real. On a similar note, improve the AI to be able to move
around a car that is blocking the current racing line, even if it means
going in the grass or off the main racing surface. Cars bunching up behind
each other behind one wrecked sideways car is bad, especially if you are
travelling full speed.

Behind the wall is an idea. Also the thought of more random breakdown
types on the player would be interesting.

I'd say if any type of contact which renders a car unmovable, or contact
which rips off a part of the car and throws it on the track.

This is great! Also add season statistics like races led, laps led, best
finish, etc.

this is about the size of viewing from a Nascar racer's point of view. It
should be easily adjusted when you do alot of racing.

This would be nice, but I'm not sure Papyrus would be willing to let loose
it's track editing tools upon the world, even if people will buy it
packaged at 100$ or more.

My 2 cents on Nascar 2. Keep up the great work and be prepared to rise to
#1 on the PC game charts Papyrus.

- Jeff Copperthite

Hi,
   I thought I would just throw in a couple of my suggestions as well
(eventhough it is defently too late for NASCAR 2!)

1:  Having flashing lights on the pace car -  This would defently make
the game more realistic!

2:  Pit Crew movement - I know that this was mentioned before, but
even the old "Bill Elliott's NASCAR Challenge" game had pit crew
movement, and, it actually was pretty good!

3:  "Drivers start your engines" - Why not at the beginning of a race
have an announcer of some sort say "Drivers start your engines".  I
know the novelity of this would ware off fast, but it would be fun!

Cheers,
John

 -- Winners never quit, quiters never win

I think its in there.

Alex
"YoungGun"  

Again, too much concern about flash.  I like flash too - but I am much more
concerned about the racing simulation itself.  /THansen