rec.autos.simulators

Other than the obvious price difference (and one being FF), how does the
MOMO stack up against the TSW in areas of drivability, feel on the track,
speed, etc.

Thanks

Without answering your question (sorry!), can i suggest you also take a look
at the logitech Driving Force Pro? Its what has replaced my BRD (TSW
equivalent) wheel here.

pez

I couldnt imagine GTR of Rfactor without Force Feedback.

Mitch
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FF doesn't add anything for me in simracing, it's a distraction more
than anything else (but that might be just me).

I own a TSW and have tried the Momo several times at a friend's place,
and for me the TSW is more "sturdy" and feels more solid, esp. with
the ball bearing shaft. Also, the TSW pedals have more travel than the
Momo ones which feel kind of "plasticky" for lack of a better term.

I might guess the TSW is easier to maintain in the long run, but I
have never seen an open Momo.

Cheers,

uwe

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I haven't owned either, but have driven with them both.  I'd say the
TSW is, overall, a higher quality system.  The Momo certainly didn't
seem "cheap", though.
Personally, I wouldn't drive w/o FF, but that's because I'll never be a
real hotshoe, so simming is more about immersion for me than outright
speed.
Stuff like FF effects from curbs may slow you down more than impart any
useful info about front/rear grip.  But dance along on the limit of
adhesion in something like RBR and I don't think you'll ever go back
:).

Kendt

I agree Uwe.  When I first purchased the Momo Force I was quite unimpressed.
But like anything once I got the kinks worked out I like it allot.  I never
used the stock pedals but they do look pretty cheesy.  I had the AL Perf
Pedals then went to the ECCI6000 which IMO is about the perfect combo for a
quality immersion :)

I never cared for the FF in NR2003 and I never tried with GPL but the new
titles (GTR, RFactor) the FF seems to be much more than just an "effect"
and gives very very good feedback.  

Just last night in an RFactor race I was thinking what a great tactile
feeling it is going over the rumble strips with either left or right side
of the car.  I could tell which side I was on with a blindfold on, could
you with your TSW ;)  In fact Id bet I could make it all the way around
Toban Short with a blindfold on using just the FF.  You can really tell
what surface youre on.  It may not be perfect yet but its close and every
tiny bit of feedback we can get while sitting in front of a monitor is
beneficial imvho.

Mitch
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Yes, and the absolute king of FF is RBR.  You haven't played RBR until
you've played it with FF.  :-))

Not recommended online though Mitch :)

You got me thinkin about RBR again Steve.  I hadnt run it since shortly
after the demo was released and assumed it would be avaialbe local here in
California by now.  I guess not eh?  I couldnt find one store that ever
heard of it, inclding EB and Gamestop.

MItch
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I have a MOMO Force and the original TSW wheel (which I've had for about
6 years, IIRC).  Here's what I see as their relative strengths and
weaknesses:

TSW:  Good: Easily maintained (ie - replacing pots)
             Solid as a rock
             Great Pedals (although I think the design has changed quite
             a bit on the latest TSW's)
             Wheel has a nice feel to it
       Not-so-good:  No Force Feedback

MOMO Force:  Good: Force Feedback (Yes it IS worthwhile in modern sims -
especially after some tweaking).
                    6 assignable buttons on wheel
                    Leather wrap on wheel is very nice.
       Not-so-good:  Pedals really are poor in comparison to TSW -- too
little travel

After being very happy with my TSW, I found that I wanted FF, so I
bought the MOMO.  Now, I still have both hooked up to my system.  I use
the TSW peds thru the gameport and the MOMO wheel thru USB, with sims
like GTR, GPL, NR2003, RBR, F1C, etc.  Unfortunately, I still have to
have the MOMO peds and TSW wheel hooked up to make this work, so it take
up a lot of space on the floor.

FWIW:  I also have used the MOMO Racing.  While it is not as solidly
built as the MOMO Force, it's FF effects are a bit better out-of-the box
IMO.  The wheel feels good in the hands (no leather wrap though), but I
had a problem with the paddle shifters breaking.  (Cheap plastic)  I've
heard that this issue has since been resolved, though.  The MOMO Racing
peds are nicer than the MOMO Force's, but still nowhere near TSW's.

I hope this helps you in your decision.

<snip>
<snip>

Same here.  Appreciate what they're trying to do, but in use it feels
unnatural; like a PC peripheral & not a car's steering wheel - which ruins
the immersion for me.

Interesting to read in the latest AutoSimSport that the developer of the
$26,000 Force Dynamics motion simulator tested and ultimately discarded the
use of Immersion-based FF devices because they were out of synch with the
rest of the physics output due to device latency.  Which has long been an
issue with current FF technology; I seem to recall Kaemmer, Wests, etc.
opining along the same lines over the last few years.

SB

You can easily get rid of the momo pedals with this nifty little adapter. :)
I suppose you could also use it to connect the TSW pedals directly to the
momo wheel (if it's 2 pedals and not 3).

http://tytlandsvik.no/momo/

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