rec.autos.simulators

by **jbod** » Sun, 03 Mar 2002 10:01:11

> Are there mods for N4 or N2002 or are any being worked on? If not, is it due
> to the way the game is, meaning it's difficult to modify? I'm thinking of
> getting a NASCAR game and I don't know if I should go for N2002 or Heat.
> Since I'm not the biggest NASCAR fan, I would think Heat would be more to my
> liking since the mods would keep me busy when I get bored with the NASCAR
> game.

> Steve

The Papy sims are pretty locked-down -- you can add tracks, but
there's no way to really edit the physics, so you're stuck with NASCAR
physics no matter what.

Heat is VERY open, and we can edit all the physics values -- we really
did sweat the details on the tire models for the SoH mod and the
upcoming Porsche Vintage Heat mod, for example, just to get the right
"feel."

In terms of value as a NASCAR sim, I am NOT a NASCAR fan myself, but I
found NASCAR Heat to be VERY good in terms of pulling you into the
"NASCAR experience." The "Beat the Heat" and "Race The Pro" modes put
you into NASCAR-type situations, and you have to pass the tests in
order to move on to the next challenge. Things like getting dropped
right into the car at the end of the race, and then having to finish
in the top 3 with only 10 laps to go (starting from 10th place). Even
though I don't really like NASCAR, this portion provided me with some
of the most enjoyable sim racing fun that I've ever had (much like the
"Factory Driver" mode in NFSPU). Immersive, fun, and a really decent
physics engine -- Heat is a good value, IMO (ESPECIALLY when you take
into account the mods).

-- JB

by **Haqsa** » Sun, 03 Mar 2002 11:36:27

It's interesting to hear you say that, because some of the Heat mods I
have tried have still felt like Cup cars to me. I'm not going to
mention names, and I'm pretty sure these weren't ones that you were
involved with, but honestly with some of the mods I feel like rather
than driving a sports car I'm driving a lighter weight, more powerful
Cup car, or rather than driving an open wheeler, I'm driving a much
faster Cup car. Mostly this sensation comes from really vague steering
response. Even turning up the steering lock doesn't seem to eliminate
the vagueness. I suppose that could be a configuration problem too, but
the other thing is that they all still feel like they have spool rear
axles. Are there limitations to what you can change? Is it as editable
as F1 2001, for example?

by **Steve Blankenshi** » Mon, 04 Mar 2002 05:18:58

The thing about Heat mods is they are subject to the interests of their creators,as well as their familiarity with modeling cars'
physical properties. I hesitate to call it changing the physics when we're only changing the parameters of the cars that Dave
Pollatsek's physics engine then turns into car behavior. With so many mods, you get variability like you'd see between different
companies' products, not variations on one theme. Some may not accurately model inertial values, for instance, or make sure the
lift/drag ratio tracks properly with various downforce levels, or know what tire model values (or differential settings) are
appropriate for a given mod. So the resulting car behaviors can be unpredictable, and no doubt a lot of mod makers do leave more
Cup car behind than need be.

The Heat physics engine does make a nice base for mods, though, and after researching lots of champcar data for that (semi-finished)
mod, we ended up with a package that ran within tenths of the real cars on all the tracks we had comparison data for; pretty good
for a third party add-on. Heat's (Viper-based) engine is not quite at the GPL/N2002 level of fidelity, as it's designed for much
less CPU overhead, so it has some issues when you stray a long way from the Cup-type cars it's optimized for. But for cars with
softer suspensions and some mass, it does quite well; the upcoming Vintage Porsche mod feels a lot like the Japanese "Real Car
Simulator" that was floating around a while back, but better. And the SoH mod gives a good hint at what SOS37 should have been. As
for what you can do, you can fully define cars of all types; RWD, FWD, AWD, various diff-coupling arrangements, long-travel
suspensions, etc.; really fun to play mad scientist. Ever wonder what a Lotus 49 would do with wings and slicks? Hehe... Or a
900hp champcar with the wings removed? (hint - don't go there...;-) )

One place you might look for your vague steering response is your options.cfg file. Look for these lines, and try these values if
yours are different.

low_speed_steering 1.000000
nonlinear_steering 0.000000
speed_sensitive_steering 0.000000

Hope this helps,

SB

> It's interesting to hear you say that, because some of the Heat mods I
> have tried have still felt like Cup cars to me. I'm not going to
> mention names, and I'm pretty sure these weren't ones that you were
> involved with, but honestly with some of the mods I feel like rather
> than driving a sports car I'm driving a lighter weight, more powerful
> Cup car, or rather than driving an open wheeler, I'm driving a much
> faster Cup car. Mostly this sensation comes from really vague steering
> response. Even turning up the steering lock doesn't seem to eliminate
> the vagueness. I suppose that could be a configuration problem too, but
> the other thing is that they all still feel like they have spool rear
> axles. Are there limitations to what you can change? Is it as editable
> as F1 2001, for example?

rec.autos.simulators

A good touring car game? (DTM)

A good touring car game? (DTM)

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