rec.autos.simulators

by * Leon » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Hi

Flat spotting is when you brake hard and the tyres lock up
creating a big black stretch of black marks on the road.
This black mark is a result of the tyres wearing itself on
the road.

In F1, flat spotting will create uneven wheel which inturn
will create other problems.

I wonder if GPL has this feature built in.
Right now I am using a lot of heavy braking coming into
corners and could see alot of marks on the tracks.

Interestingly I see a few replays of other players which
DON'T
have this heavy braking.
I wonder if there is any drawback to this technique ( of
heavy braking just before
the corner )

--
regards

===========================================
Singapore

by **Jack Ramb** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

The drawback to braking with the tires locked is that braking distance is
increased. A rotating tire provides greater braking force than a locked
tire. If you watch the replays of the top GPL drivers, you'll notice that
they seldom, if ever, lock their tires, and never do so by design. I don't
believe that GPL models flat-spotted tires.

Jack Rambo

by **Matthew Birger Knutse** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

> The drawback to braking with the tires locked is that braking distance is
> increased. A rotating tire provides greater braking force than a locked
> tire. If you watch the replays of the top GPL drivers, you'll notice that
> they seldom, if ever, lock their tires, and never do so by design. I don't
> believe that GPL models flat-spotted tires.

> Jack Rambo

Also, those tires were so hard, flat spotting was not the problem it is
today..

Matt
--

Matthew Knutsen

"The Art of Legends" - GPL add-ons
http://www.cheekracing.electra.no/GPL/

by **ymenar** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

And thanks to the Tyre war that happened in F1 during the last years, flat
spotting is about non-existent and doesn't really change anymore the
handling of the car compared to some years ago (where locking the tyres
meant changing them). But I agree those old tyres were soo hard and tick,
it wasn't a problem.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **Kirk Lan** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Besides, locking them up makes it really unstable....

--
Kirk Lane

ICQ: 28171652

>The drawback to braking with the tires locked is that braking distance is
>increased. A rotating tire provides greater braking force than a locked
>tire. If you watch the replays of the top GPL drivers, you'll notice that
>they seldom, if ever, lock their tires, and never do so by design. I don't
>believe that GPL models flat-spotted tires.

>Jack Rambo

by **^Frett** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I believe a 'little' more to the point: "flat spotting" is just that!
When you brake
too hard the wheel locks, the tyres slide on one spot & burns the ***
right
off that spot! Then you have a "flat spot". No more No Less.. Unless
they've
got a new tyre out there I am un-aware of?? IMHO.. ;0)
Cheers Thom j. aka ^Fretts

> Hi

> Flat spotting is when you brake hard and the tyres lock up
> creating a big black stretch of black marks on the road.
> This black mark is a result of the tyres wearing itself on
> the road.

> In F1, flat spotting will create uneven wheel which inturn
> will create other problems.

> I wonder if GPL has this feature built in.
> Right now I am using a lot of heavy braking coming into
> corners and could see alot of marks on the tracks.

> Interestingly I see a few replays of other players which
> DON'T
> have this heavy braking.
> I wonder if there is any drawback to this technique ( of
> heavy braking just before
> the corner )

> --
> regards

> ===========================================
> Singapore

n2rif1.vcf
< 1K Download

by **John Walla** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Definitely disagree with that, flat-spotting was and remains a BAD
thing to do. Quite apart from the sudden and massive wear to that
section, a tire which is flat spotted becomes is more likely to lock
in future as the flat spot doesn't "roll" as easily. That means you
either apply less braking force or you will again lock up the same
spot, worsening your problem.

These days tires are somewhat more durable than they used to be, but a
flat-spot is still the start of a downward spiral for any race tire.

Cheers!
John

by **ymenar** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

I see your point and I agree. I never said it was good.. Probably should
had said that it's much less worse that it was before, even if it's still
not the best way to brake...

That's what I wanted to say :)

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **DAVI** » Tue, 13 Apr 1999 04:00:00

It also sets up a *** vibration thru the steering wheel due to the tires
not being round anymore. that may often be worse the the loss of braking.

Dave

by **Woodie** » Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:00:00

GPL doesn't model tire wear at all, so I think it makes no difference, except
that you're losing a lot of braking force by locking up rather than threshold
braking.

Donald McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports

by **Woodie** » Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>And thanks to the Tyre war that happened in F1 during the last years, flat
>spotting is about non-existent and doesn't really change anymore the
>handling of the car compared to some years ago (where locking the tyres
>meant changing them). But I agree those old tyres were soo hard and tick,
>it wasn't a problem.

A tire war would tend to make the tires softer and more fragile, increasing the
problem. One tire manufacturer would make tires more durable and less prone to
flat-spotting, therefore safer due to the absent need to "show up the
competition".

Donald McCorkle
Libertarian Motorsports

by * Leon » Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:00:00

ok

here's a question.
how do you tell if you are above threshold ?
by the smokes ?

more imptly how to tell if you are near threshold ?
The key I think is to brake and let go just BEFORE
threshold.
But I am constantly going over board with it,,
tried "pumping" action ( brake -release-brake )
but that created more unstability at the steering
( my hand unsteady )

by **McKafr** » Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:00:00

do you think Nascar3 will include flat spotting ?

McKafre De La Rosa

ymenard escribi en mensaje ...

>> Also, those tires were so hard, flat spotting was not the problem it is
>> today..

>And thanks to the Tyre war that happened in F1 during the last years, flat
>spotting is about non-existent and doesn't really change anymore the
>handling of the car compared to some years ago (where locking the tyres
>meant changing them). But I agree those old tyres were soo hard and tick,
>it wasn't a problem.

>--
>-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
>-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
>-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
>-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
>-- May the Downforce be with you...

>"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
>how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

by **R+A Prydde** » Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:00:00

Your right tire wear is not modeled in GPL but tire temp is so you will
increase your tire temp on the tire that locks resulting in a slight loss of
grip if the temp is to high.
As for the threshold of braking you can tell by the sound the tire makes
under braking.

Rick Prydden.

by **Hena Hakkane** » Wed, 14 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>> Definitely disagree with that, flat-spotting was and remains a BAD
>> thing to do. Quite apart from the sudden and massive wear to that
>> section, a tire which is flat spotted becomes is more likely to lock
>> in future as the flat spot doesn't "roll" as easily. That means you
>> either apply less braking force or you will again lock up the same
>> spot, worsening your problem.

>I see your point and I agree. I never said it was good.. Probably should
>had said that it's much less worse that it was before, even if it's still
>not the best way to brake...

>> These days tires are somewhat more durable than they used to be, but a
>> flat-spot is still the start of a downward spiral for any race tire.

>That's what I wanted to say :)

Did you guys see de Ferran's 360 at the start of the Motegi race last
Saturday? One would think that he flat spotted his tires for good, but still
managed to do very competetive lap times after the restart. I realise that
at least the rear tires were spinning under power for the entire spin thus
minimizing flat spotting but still ... Anyway, I thought it was pretty
amazing that he could continue with that set of tires AND lead the race for
awhile ...

Hena

rec.autos.simulators

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