rec.autos.simulators

by **Steve Smit** » Mon, 31 Jan 2005 03:58:41

Redline Developments Statement

Redline Developments would like to formally apologize for our lack of
response following the original release and subsequent removal of Redline
GTP. Shortly after release, we became aware of installation bugs. We brought
this to the attention of the community. We also became aware that Redline
GTP was infringing upon the rights of a number of companies. We have been
working closely with FIRST-Racing.net - the company who owns the rights to
the simulation we modified - on a restructured version of Redline GTP and
are happy to say that we will have this out in the near future. The solution
to this situation is designed to allow us to deliver our mod to the
sim-racing community.

The restructured version of Redline GTP involves the removal of all
infringed upon unlicensed properties including those of car manufacturers,
track-owners and various other properties. Even with these changes, the core
of Redline GTP remains completely intact. Redline Developments will fully
support the restructured version of Redline GTP; however, we will be unable
to offer support for the original release and ask you to delete such version
from your computer.

The history of sim-racing includes a tradition of post-publisher mods and
development. This will continue and is something both Redline Developments
and FIRST-Racing.net support , however modding should not cross the line
into intellectual property infringement. Modders and companies must work
cooperatively in frameworks which protect the rights of all involved.

We at Redline Developments are amazed at the amount of e***ment Redline
GTP has created. The level of support we received from the sim-racing
community has exceeded our expectations in every regard, and for that we are
grateful.

We hope that you continue to enjoy Redline GTP and, again, thank you for
your continued support!

by **Ruud Dingeman** » Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:19:47

> Redline Developments Statement
> The history of sim-racing includes a tradition of post-publisher mods and
> development. This will continue and is something both Redline Developments
> and FIRST-Racing.net support , however modding should not cross the line
> into intellectual property infringement. Modders and companies must work
> cooperatively in frameworks which protect the rights of all involved.

Well... I can understand where they're coming from, but personally, if I
wanted to bring out a *non-commercial* mod, I'd infringe on any
copyright and happily stomp all over it, as long as I'd damn well
please. Sosumi.

I'd certainly not call up every company that ever advertised on some car
and ask for their permission to do a car or track paintjob (which, if it
involved their ads, would be a snippet of extra free publicity anyway).

It'd be totally different for commercial mods of course (is Redline's
GTP? I thought it wasn't), but most aren't. Personally, that's where I
draw the line. The day companies can start dictating what "modders"
publishing friendly freebies can or cannot do, voluntary game modding is
as dead as the proverbial doornail.

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank -24)

by ZZ » Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:54:02

Seems to be a thread about this at Blackhole.

http://www.bhmotorsports.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=26375

I guess F1rst is coming out with a pay to play mod or something.

Seems a few people are a little PO'd about this development.

As long as I have GTR, I don't care what they do or what the mod is.

--
Richard "ZZ" Busch

Member:
Screamers Racing League
oAo
AoA
MARA GTR
GT Rank +36.233
NGT Rank +49.137
GT Rank Monster +1270.813
GPL Rank + 14.768
MoGPL Rank + 308.654
N2003 Rank -18.8060
----------------
Remember racecar is racecar spelled backward
-----------------

by **Pete** » Mon, 31 Jan 2005 12:44:18

Not sure about that one. I've read discussions on similar lines to,
'Why doesn't someone ignore all the intellectual property rights and
just create a sim that doesn't infringe on such and then allow the sim
community to come up with the goods. Eg, such as tracks, cars etc.'
This seems to go against that idea completely, or am I reading too much
into that statement? One of the major buzzes about these kinds of mods
is that they represent an era, car type, track that we are familiar
with. Are we now to only get mods that don't represent anything that we
are familiar with from history at all? That'll be a real bummer.

--
Pete Ives
Remove All_stRESS before sending me an email

by **David G Fishe** » Mon, 31 Jan 2005 13:16:07

It's a non-commercial mod, so I don't see why they should worry about what
first-racing has to say.

Another reason why rFactor is the right approach. Right ymenard?

--
David G Fisher

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Mon, 31 Jan 2005 15:29:09

Is that anything like a tsunami, Rudy........or is it similar to a sushi?

:)

Bruce.

by **born_once_not_ag..** » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 03:28:14

Didn't the flight sim community go through this a couple of years
back? It seems to me that American Airlines legal beagles got their
panties in a snit about useage of the AA liveries on freeware (don't
quote me on this) planes. I'm not sure of the exact details but it got
resolved so that modders were allowed to use real stuff.

I have never understood why game companies have had to pay to get the
rights to include people's products in their work. After all these
same companies PAY to have their products placed in other media:
movies TV, etc. I can understand getting permission to use them for
commercial purposes but not to pay.

There seems to be a great deal of missing information here. I'm
surprised that the parties involved don't use some form of leakage to
get the true message out to the public if they are constrained from
doing a simple press release. Perhaps there are too few players to not
make the leak obvious.

by **Daru** » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 05:13:56

I suspect that the company that is having its name/logo/image wants
control over how its name/logo/image is used and the way its seen.

For example, pretend GTP was widely released in its present form. the
Mazda is supposed to be poor on fuel mileage. Whether this is modded
into the GTP program or not is unknown (and doubtful). It's probably a
historical fact, not an indication of how the cars runs in the mod. The
mod gets rave reviews and thousands of ppl. are playing it via VROC.
Word of mouth spreads and everyone knows that when running a longer
race, don't use the Mazda, it gets lousy fuel economy. However, the
Mazda big wigs get wind of this and don't want ppl. thinking that all
Mazdas are bad on fuel mileage so they send the "legal beagles" after
RD.

Pure speculation, but I'll bet there's a little bit of truth in there
somewhere.

by **Dino** » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:49:40

Something doesn't smell right. Why wasn't the same fate handed to The Pits
and PWF for their use of the same "intellectual property" in question?
Maybe the GTP mod hit's too close to (FIRSTRacing's) home, sts.

DN

by **Schoone** » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 10:31:14

Perhaps that's the real reason the Pits got pissy and closed up too.

> Something doesn't smell right. Why wasn't the same fate handed to The Pits
> and PWF for their use of the same "intellectual property" in question?
> Maybe the GTP mod hit's too close to (FIRSTRacing's) home, sts.

> DN

>> Redline Developments Statement

>> Redline Developments would like to formally apologize for our lack of
>> response following the original release and subsequent removal of Redline
>> GTP. Shortly after release, we became aware of installation bugs. We
> brought
>> this to the attention of the community. We also became aware that Redline
>> GTP was infringing upon the rights of a number of companies. We have been
>> working closely with FIRST-Racing.net - the company who owns the rights
>> to
>> the simulation we modified - on a restructured version of Redline GTP and
>> are happy to say that we will have this out in the near future. The
> solution
>> to this situation is designed to allow us to deliver our mod to the
>> sim-racing community.

>> The restructured version of Redline GTP involves the removal of all
>> infringed upon unlicensed properties including those of car
>> manufacturers,
>> track-owners and various other properties. Even with these changes, the
> core
>> of Redline GTP remains completely intact. Redline Developments will fully
>> support the restructured version of Redline GTP; however, we will be
> unable
>> to offer support for the original release and ask you to delete such
> version
>> from your computer.

>> The history of sim-racing includes a tradition of post-publisher mods and
>> development. This will continue and is something both Redline
>> Developments
>> and FIRST-Racing.net support , however modding should not cross the line
>> into intellectual property infringement. Modders and companies must work
>> cooperatively in frameworks which protect the rights of all involved.

>> We at Redline Developments are amazed at the amount of e***ment Redline

>> GTP has created. The level of support we received from the sim-racing
>> community has exceeded our expectations in every regard, and for that we
> are
>> grateful.

>> We hope that you continue to enjoy Redline GTP and, again, thank you for
>> your continued support!

by **Larr** » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:05:24

Who the hell is FIRST Racing, and why do I care?

-Larry

> Something doesn't smell right. Why wasn't the same fate handed to The Pits
> and PWF for their use of the same "intellectual property" in question?
> Maybe the GTP mod hit's too close to (FIRSTRacing's) home, sts.

> DN

>> Redline Developments Statement

>> Redline Developments would like to formally apologize for our lack of
>> response following the original release and subsequent removal of Redline
>> GTP. Shortly after release, we became aware of installation bugs. We
> brought
>> this to the attention of the community. We also became aware that Redline
>> GTP was infringing upon the rights of a number of companies. We have been
>> working closely with FIRST-Racing.net - the company who owns the rights
>> to
>> the simulation we modified - on a restructured version of Redline GTP and
>> are happy to say that we will have this out in the near future. The
> solution
>> to this situation is designed to allow us to deliver our mod to the
>> sim-racing community.

>> The restructured version of Redline GTP involves the removal of all
>> infringed upon unlicensed properties including those of car
>> manufacturers,
>> track-owners and various other properties. Even with these changes, the
> core
>> of Redline GTP remains completely intact. Redline Developments will fully
>> support the restructured version of Redline GTP; however, we will be
> unable
>> to offer support for the original release and ask you to delete such
> version
>> from your computer.

>> The history of sim-racing includes a tradition of post-publisher mods and
>> development. This will continue and is something both Redline
>> Developments
>> and FIRST-Racing.net support , however modding should not cross the line
>> into intellectual property infringement. Modders and companies must work
>> cooperatively in frameworks which protect the rights of all involved.

>> We at Redline Developments are amazed at the amount of e***ment Redline

>> GTP has created. The level of support we received from the sim-racing
>> community has exceeded our expectations in every regard, and for that we
> are
>> grateful.

>> We hope that you continue to enjoy Redline GTP and, again, thank you for
>> your continued support!

by JP » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 11:17:27

Kaemmer's new project. As to caring, I'm not. To early :)

> Who the hell is FIRST Racing, and why do I care?

> -Larry

> > Something doesn't smell right. Why wasn't the same fate handed to The
Pits
> > and PWF for their use of the same "intellectual property" in question?
> > Maybe the GTP mod hit's too close to (FIRSTRacing's) home, sts.

> > DN

> >> Redline Developments Statement

> >> Redline Developments would like to formally apologize for our lack of
> >> response following the original release and subsequent removal of
Redline
> >> GTP. Shortly after release, we became aware of installation bugs. We
> > brought
> >> this to the attention of the community. We also became aware that
Redline
> >> GTP was infringing upon the rights of a number of companies. We have
been
> >> working closely with FIRST-Racing.net - the company who owns the rights
> >> to
> >> the simulation we modified - on a restructured version of Redline GTP
and
> >> are happy to say that we will have this out in the near future. The
> > solution
> >> to this situation is designed to allow us to deliver our mod to the
> >> sim-racing community.

> >> The restructured version of Redline GTP involves the removal of all
> >> infringed upon unlicensed properties including those of car
> >> manufacturers,
> >> track-owners and various other properties. Even with these changes, the
> > core
> >> of Redline GTP remains completely intact. Redline Developments will
fully
> >> support the restructured version of Redline GTP; however, we will be
> > unable
> >> to offer support for the original release and ask you to delete such
> > version
> >> from your computer.

> >> The history of sim-racing includes a tradition of post-publisher mods
and
> >> development. This will continue and is something both Redline
> >> Developments
> >> and FIRST-Racing.net support , however modding should not cross the
line
> >> into intellectual property infringement. Modders and companies must
work
> >> cooperatively in frameworks which protect the rights of all involved.

> >> We at Redline Developments are amazed at the amount of e***ment
Redline

> >> GTP has created. The level of support we received from the sim-racing
> >> community has exceeded our expectations in every regard, and for that
we
> > are
> >> grateful.

> >> We hope that you continue to enjoy Redline GTP and, again, thank you
for
> >> your continued support!

by **Schoone** » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 12:12:24

First Racing is PWF with money :-)
They bought all the Papyrus code.

> Who the hell is FIRST Racing, and why do I care?

> -Larry

>> Something doesn't smell right. Why wasn't the same fate handed to The
>> Pits
>> and PWF for their use of the same "intellectual property" in question?
>> Maybe the GTP mod hit's too close to (FIRSTRacing's) home, sts.

>> DN

>>> Redline Developments Statement

>>> Redline Developments would like to formally apologize for our lack of
>>> response following the original release and subsequent removal of
>>> Redline
>>> GTP. Shortly after release, we became aware of installation bugs. We
>> brought
>>> this to the attention of the community. We also became aware that
>>> Redline
>>> GTP was infringing upon the rights of a number of companies. We have
>>> been
>>> working closely with FIRST-Racing.net - the company who owns the rights
>>> to
>>> the simulation we modified - on a restructured version of Redline GTP
>>> and
>>> are happy to say that we will have this out in the near future. The
>> solution
>>> to this situation is designed to allow us to deliver our mod to the
>>> sim-racing community.

>>> The restructured version of Redline GTP involves the removal of all
>>> infringed upon unlicensed properties including those of car
>>> manufacturers,
>>> track-owners and various other properties. Even with these changes, the
>> core
>>> of Redline GTP remains completely intact. Redline Developments will
>>> fully
>>> support the restructured version of Redline GTP; however, we will be
>> unable
>>> to offer support for the original release and ask you to delete such
>> version
>>> from your computer.

>>> The history of sim-racing includes a tradition of post-publisher mods
>>> and
>>> development. This will continue and is something both Redline
>>> Developments
>>> and FIRST-Racing.net support , however modding should not cross the line
>>> into intellectual property infringement. Modders and companies must work
>>> cooperatively in frameworks which protect the rights of all involved.

>>> We at Redline Developments are amazed at the amount of e***ment
>>> Redline

>>> GTP has created. The level of support we received from the sim-racing
>>> community has exceeded our expectations in every regard, and for that we
>> are
>>> grateful.

>>> We hope that you continue to enjoy Redline GTP and, again, thank you for
>>> your continued support!

by **ymenar** » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:18:22

> Another reason why rFactor is the right approach. Right ymenard?

Dunno I still see this as a separate thing. There the compagnies doing
their usual legal work here, versus the guy who wants to race real tracks
out-of-the-box, 'cause he doesn't want to wait 6 months for third-party
users to release them, often in average quality.

If we go back to the first part, and I've said it quite often here on
r.a.s., we're always marching on eggs. EVERY car that's painted for a F1
sim, Nascar sim, Rally, etc... every track, every billboard, every
everything, is somehow illegal as it containts intellectual property
infringements.

I still think we should ignore it, and just release those things via
bittorent and let the users win tehehe.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **ymenar** » Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:19:49

<snip>

So, anybody wants to Bittorent the GTP mod, or knows where to find it
online? I didn't install it only because I was told it was possibily
dangerous for it's uninstallation grrr (I fell into that trap).

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

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