rec.autos.simulators

>   |
>   |a/-/     \-\
>   |/ /---|---\ \
>   |-     |    -
>   |      |
>   |      |
>   |      |
>    (hope this graphic displays right)

>         Where "a" is is the measuring area.  The Left line is the string, then
> there's the +toe tire, Then axle, then Center line of the chassis.  Then
> the same thing for the Right hand side.  This is one way to measure Toe
> but is it the way GPL measures and displays Toe?  If so, then a + or -
> 5.0 Toe would be a very bad setup.

> >         I don't know how Toe is measured in GPL.  I'll just assume that (if the
> > car was a physical car, one that you could touch) If you took a string
> > and laid it across the center of the tire horizontally and parallel to
> > the center of the car (front to rear), the Toe would be measured as the
> > distance from the string to the edge of the wheel..

> >   |
> >   |a/-/     \-\
> >   |/ /---|---\ \
> >   |-     |    -
> >   |      |
> >   |      |
> >   |      |
> >    (hope this graphic displays right)

> >         Where "a" is is the measuring area.  The Left line is the string, then
> > there's the +toe tire, Then axle, then Center line of the chassis.  Then
> > the same thing for the Right hand side.  This is one way to measure Toe
> > but is it the way GPL measures and displays Toe?  If so, then a + or -
> > 5.0 Toe would be a very bad setup.

> No, we've done some "shade-tree" toe adjustments on the big busses at
> work in the past.  How it's measured is you measure from tire centerline
> to tire centerline, both at the front & rear of the tire.  Half that
> distance difference is the amount of toe.  Much more accurate, as you
> can run across individual wheels with different amounts of toe with your
> method, but you must remember that toe tends to equalize when the
> vehicle is in motion.

> Do you have any views on Lotus setups at all, or do you not drive it?

> Mauricio.

> Doesn't sound like the best way to balance a car's handling - by
> compensating for the power oversteer by dialling in more understeer.
> The reason the 60 deg diff is so oversteery is because the outside
> rear locks too easily when power is transferred from the slipping
> inside rear. You don't get that gradual transfer of torque via the
> clutches that you do with an 85 deg diff. Just seems to be
> compensating for a lack of rear end grip with reducing the front end
> grip.

> >Actually the zero camber tires have higher temps on the outside due to
> >factors other than camber. So when I go into a left turn the temps even
> >out, indicating that the inside tire is flat on the track.

> What are you referring to, by "factors other than camber"? Do you mean
> that the left tyres are hot on the outside in a right hander, but then
> even out for a left hander? If so, then you seem to be sacrificing the
> loaded tyres for when they become the unloaded tyres in the next
> corner. Obviously it is ideal to get the most from all 4 tyres, but
> since the loaded tyres are doing the majority of the work, I have put
> most attention to the loaded ones. Like cutting the apex over the
> grass is no big deal, usually quicker. Get the loaded tyres on the
> grass though, and wham!

> > >Actually the zero camber tires have higher temps on the outside due to
> > >factors other than camber. So when I go into a left turn the temps even
> > >out, indicating that the inside tire is flat on the track.

> > What are you referring to, by "factors other than camber"? Do you mean
> > that the left tyres are hot on the outside in a right hander, but then
> > even out for a left hander? If so, then you seem to be sacrificing the
> > loaded tyres for when they become the unloaded tyres in the next
> > corner. Obviously it is ideal to get the most from all 4 tyres, but
> > since the loaded tyres are doing the majority of the work, I have put
> > most attention to the loaded ones. Like cutting the apex over the
> > grass is no big deal, usually quicker. Get the loaded tyres on the
> > grass though, and wham!

> um, Don't quote me but I think he's talking about "Thrust Camber".  I
> haven't a clue how accurate the math is in GPL but I do know it is
> modeled

> --
> =========================================
> Mike Barlow
> Current GPVL points Champion
> =========================================

> > >Actually the zero camber tires have higher temps on the outside due to
> > >factors other than camber. So when I go into a left turn the temps even
> > >out, indicating that the inside tire is flat on the track.

> > What are you referring to, by "factors other than camber"? Do you mean
> > that the left tyres are hot on the outside in a right hander, but then
> > even out for a left hander? If so, then you seem to be sacrificing the
> > loaded tyres for when they become the unloaded tyres in the next
> > corner. Obviously it is ideal to get the most from all 4 tyres, but
> > since the loaded tyres are doing the majority of the work, I have put
> > most attention to the loaded ones. Like cutting the apex over the
> > grass is no big deal, usually quicker. Get the loaded tyres on the
> > grass though, and wham!

> Don't bother to keep the inside temperature higher than the outside -
> to take advantageof the legendary camber thrust - because it doesn't
> appear to be modelled in GPL. In any case,  Carroll Smith reckons that
> you need to keep the inside of the tires about 15F hotter than the
> outside to take full advantage of it - which would require
> unacceptable amounts of static camber in GPL.

> I think an important point is " doesn't appear to be modelled in GPL".
> Anyone know if it is or not? My guess is that Nunnini's point is valid
> - that you would need too much -ve camber to achieve it, which would
> make the car hard to drive. Maybe possible in real life, but a bit too
> tough for GPL.

> Rafe Mc