rec.autos.simulators

camber question?

Tom De Mue

camber question?

by Tom De Mue » Tue, 06 Jan 2004 01:15:24

Hi,

Assume a nonsteering wheel : according to the figure on :
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
the result of the inclination, but in LFS for example you can set all 5
shown parameters independently.  Could anybody shed some light on this :)

Cheers,
Tom

Bad-Bo

camber question?

by Bad-Bo » Tue, 06 Jan 2004 02:19:40



He's talking about how camber CHANGES during wheel movement.

The example given only considered wishbone suspension and is correct to a
point .
Trailing link suspension doesn't change camber ( but MAY change caster if
the upper and lower links are different lengths )

I don't have LFS, but I assume what you are allowed to enter is the STATIC
value for these 5 parameters.
Any decent race suspension will enable you to adjust everything in a static
situation.
How it behaves under compression and extension may not be modelled on the
game.

If it was, then they would have to get smart about the type of suspension
and control inks.

Leave it to others to confirm LFS.

Jan Verschuere

camber question?

by Jan Verschuere » Tue, 06 Jan 2004 03:22:06

Yes, but that figure is for a "steering" wheel and 3 of those 5 factors
(inclination, scrub radius and castor angle) only apply to those (as they do
in LFS). That's steering geometry and almost independant of suspension
geometry.
These 3 factors can have an effect on camber as the wheels are steered. See
certain Formula Vee's and, most famously, the 2CV for a graphic example
(<--- now that car, in rallycross gise, would be a hoot in LFS <g>)

Non steering wheels only have camber and toe. Camber can change over travel
as a function of suspension geometrie, following the so called camber curve.

If you really want to know about this stuff, read "Tune to Win" by Carroll
Smith, take two aspirin and don't call me in the morning. <vbg>

Jan.
=---

Haqsa

camber question?

by Haqsa » Tue, 06 Jan 2004 09:27:04

Unless you take into account bump steer, which is very important for
multi-link suspensions.  Then all the parameters still mean something.  No
sim that I know of actually allows you to control this and I doubt that any
of them even model it (it *might* be modelled in F1C if they set the links
up right), but it is a real thing.

Sorry Jan, couldn't let that one go.  ;o)


Tom De Mue

camber question?

by Tom De Mue » Wed, 07 Jan 2004 04:01:38


> Unless you take into account bump steer, which is very important for
> multi-link suspensions.  Then all the parameters still mean something.  No
> sim that I know of actually allows you to control this and I doubt that
any
> of them even model it (it *might* be modelled in F1C if they set the links
> up right), but it is a real thing.

> Sorry Jan, couldn't let that one go.  ;o)



> > Non steering wheels only have camber and toe.

Both thx for the replies, esp. Jan which in private conversation gave some
extra explanation ;-)

Cheers,
Tom

Jan Verschuere

camber question?

by Jan Verschuere » Wed, 07 Jan 2004 04:07:25

Bump steer is an effect due to track and radius rods also being attached to
the wheel hub/uprights. As I understand it, it is adjusted out as much as
possible by moving the attachment points of same up/down slightly by
shimming, not by changing inclination/scrubradius/caster. Nor, again: if I
understand correctly, does the adjustment affect static camber/toe.

I know, I just don't see how it pertains to the question. Which, I'll admit,
only understood afterwards as well.

Jeez... no respect. ;-)

Jan.
=---

Haqsa

camber question?

by Haqsa » Wed, 07 Jan 2004 09:58:41

From a practical standpoint you are correct but from a purely geometric
standpoint you can still define an instant axis of rotation which gives you
an effective scrub radius, etc.



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