> >> What's over-romaticizing about calling Papyrus a software house dedicated to
> producing racing sims, although, his mention of MS / TRI is a bit much>>
> It was the latter that bugged me more than the former. Papyrus=wonderful,
> MS/TRI=crap, and all that.
Ummmm, me thinks Papy should be pretty strong in the resource dept
these days. Definantly a matter of luxury rather than neccessity. I just
hope they don't get fat and lazy :)
Ubi-F1 is good and up there with the Papyrus sims, but "blows away"?!
Really? You must have a different product to the one I do. It's good,
but not that good.
Remember too that ICR2 is some years old now - let's wait and see what
Papy's response to Ubi-F1 is, and indeed if Ubisoft will make any more
sim products at all. I hope so, since Ubi-F1 has a lot of potential
for something even better.
Cheers!
John
Unless you have facts which back up your position, I don't think its
fair to transfer all blame for Papyrus problems to Sierra.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
>> >> What's over-romaticizing about calling Papyrus a software house dedicated to
>> producing racing sims, although, his mention of MS / TRI is a bit much>>
>> It was the latter that bugged me more than the former. Papyrus=wonderful,
>> MS/TRI=crap, and all that.
> But is it not true? On current form? Sentiment like this exists for
>good reason.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.digitalsports.com
From experience, I know I can buy any driving sim produced by Papyrus or
Geoff Crammond and know that it will be worth the cost many times over.
For any other developer I need a demo or the opinions of those I trust
before I will lay out any cash.
Cheers,
Richard
> >> >> What's over-romaticizing about calling Papyrus a software house dedicated to
> >> producing racing sims, although, his mention of MS / TRI is a bit much>>
> >> It was the latter that bugged me more than the former. Papyrus=wonderful,
> >> MS/TRI=crap, and all that.
> > But is it not true? On current form? Sentiment like this exists for
> >good reason.
> You're never as good as the public thinks you are, and you're never as
> bad as the public thinks you are. Its true in sports, and its true in
> software. I don't like comments like this because they tend to throw
> out the good with the bad (or the bad with the good), and make it
> rather difficult to do anything constructive about the problems.
> >Papyrus no longer dominates the sim industry it seems as if the other companies
> >have caught up with them, if you look at Ubisofts F1 it blows any papyrus sim
> >away to date. And the funny thing this is their first attempt at making an F1
> >simulation.
> Ubi-F1 is good and up there with the Papyrus sims, but "blows away"?!
> Really? You must have a different product to the one I do. It's good,
> but not that good.
> Remember too that ICR2 is some years old now - let's wait and see what
> Papy's response to Ubi-F1 is, and indeed if Ubisoft will make any more
> sim products at all. I hope so, since Ubi-F1 has a lot of potential
> for something even better.
> Cheers!
> John
> > Yes, but not as bad as some recent efforts!
> Agreed.
> >I would also say that if >they seperated from Sierra and became the complete pure bred then it
> >would actually be possible for them to release games that, if needing patches, would only be for minor issues anyway.
> Unless you have facts which back up your position, I don't think its
> fair to transfer all blame for Papyrus problems to Sierra.
Nevertheless, that is the current situation. Undoubtedly those who
aren't CART fanatics have already looked at it and moved on.
Unfortunately, I'm a CART ***. I just gotta have it :). So, I
would rather feed MS as much information they need to get me the CART
sim that *I* want. Now, if Papyrus were to have a new version of CART
on the shelves right now that did everything MS did and did it right,
I would probably not spend as much effort as I have been tossing
whatever I can MS' way in hopes of helping them (I wouldn't need to.
They'd have Papyrus' sim to look at!). But unfortunately, no one here
or at MS can undo what has been done. They can only improve it.
Randy
Randy Magruder
Contributing Reviewer
Digital Sportspage
http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Well said Randy, I am in this for the long haul too cause I am also a CART
***!
George Sandman
Zone Name The_Sandman1
Stealth Racing #1
1997 CICC PPG Champion
1996 CICC PPG Champion
1996 NWSICT PPG Champion
1996 FRL PPG Champion
>> The business of ironing out the problems is not mine or yours. No
>>software product should be released as unfinished as CPR was.
>Agreed.
>>We pay for the software company to release a finished product. The notion
of the
>>public being used as slaves to iron out games is totally ridiculous.
>Nevertheless, that is the current situation. Undoubtedly those who
>aren't CART fanatics have already looked at it and moved on.
>Unfortunately, I'm a CART ***. I just gotta have it :). So, I
>would rather feed MS as much information they need to get me the CART
>sim that *I* want. Now, if Papyrus were to have a new version of CART
>on the shelves right now that did everything MS did and did it right,
>I would probably not spend as much effort as I have been tossing
>whatever I can MS' way in hopes of helping them (I wouldn't need to.
>They'd have Papyrus' sim to look at!). But unfortunately, no one here
>or at MS can undo what has been done. They can only improve it.
>Randy
>Randy Magruder
>Contributing Reviewer
>Digital Sportspage
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/
Right on Randy, As most know I feel the exact same way! This is still not a
" Perfect Sim" but I still say its pretty dang good so far. Hopefully with
some positive constuctive input from the folks who use it they will add
even more to it. Aloha, Mike
> > The business of ironing out the problems is not mine or yours. No
> >software product should be released as unfinished as CPR was.
> Agreed.
> >We pay for the software company to release a finished product. The
notion of the
> >public being used as slaves to iron out games is totally ridiculous.
> Nevertheless, that is the current situation. Undoubtedly those who
> aren't CART fanatics have already looked at it and moved on.
> Unfortunately, I'm a CART ***. I just gotta have it :). So, I
> would rather feed MS as much information they need to get me the CART
> sim that *I* want. Now, if Papyrus were to have a new version of CART
> on the shelves right now that did everything MS did and did it right,
> I would probably not spend as much effort as I have been tossing
> whatever I can MS' way in hopes of helping them (I wouldn't need to.
> They'd have Papyrus' sim to look at!). But unfortunately, no one here
> or at MS can undo what has been done. They can only improve it.
> Randy
> Randy Magruder
> Contributing Reviewer
> Digital Sportspage
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/
On 15 Jan 1998 16:15:09 GMT, "Mikes Designs"
If Ford delivers a car to the market that doesn't work and you have 10
trips to the garage with not even a commitment of improvement, you
don't waste your time continuing to do their job and research then fix
the problems. They've got people hired to research the market before
even setting out on a project, and test the waters throughout. The
only way to improve things in the modern world is to complain - if
that isn't heard then you vote with your feet and you vote with your
wallet by shopping elsewhere. Not only shopping elsewhere, but writing
to the guy in charge telling him what you're doing and why you're
doing it. Money talks, and _everything_ else walks, and that's the
case with 99% of business today.
Cheers!
John
> > I think it's more a matter of how F1RS stacks up against GP2. And I
> > think the main difference is how well it runs on most computers about
> > these days. When Voodoo II hits it may then be a case of Blowing them
> > away - fingers crossed. But somehow I think ICR3 and GP3 will blow this
> > awat too. The good thing is GP3 has competition but I doubt Papy are
> > overly worried about CPR at this stage.
> I would disagree on that last bit....ICR2 is now pushing 3 years and has been
> totally ignored by Papy for the last 2. (a key group of ICR2 programmers left Papy
> about then)No updates, patches, track enhancements....If they didn't need a beta for
> 3d support of N2 we probably wouldn't have seen the 3d stuff either. But then...CPR
> comes along, and Psynosis starts working on a CART game and poof! Sierra repackages
> ICR2 as CART Racing. Then they announce an updated CART sim well over a year
> away...They might not be worried about CPR from a programming standpoint...but the
> marketing folks have gotta be.
