Death penalty for online cheating?
Papy can put some verification code into their programs. I hope GPL
already has it.
--
_____
/_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d
I XT /~~~~
I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro
\____/\__I_I http://www.racesimcentral.net/
> I hope for the sake of the future of GPL on-line that these sort of
> things never eventuate.
> I also hope the guys that are working on track and car editors for GPL
> take that into account and if they do manage to alter the power levels
> and grip levels of the player's car, then they keep it to themselves.
> ( please don't ruin another on-line sim)
> You might think i am being a bit harsh, but it will be a sad day for
> on-line racing with GPL, the day a grip/power editor comes out..
> If you have one, keep it to yourselves, we don't want it !!
> Cheers,
> Ron
> > LOL
> > But you forgot two special online cheats.
> > 11. Starship Warp Mode which allows you to post incredibly fast times
> at
> > any track.
> > 12. Vanish Mode which makes other online cars ahead of you vanish
> while
> > you drive right through them.
> > Cheers,
> > Paul
> > > > >In Turn 1's forum a message was posted about Papy including a
> > > > hidden cheat
> > > Yeah right!!! I bet you type in your name as arreis (sierra
> > > backwards?) and then press the "C" key during driving, and then a
> > > cheat menu appears, right?
> > > It could include the following:
> > > 1 - No gravity mode (Watch those bumps at the Ring?)
> > > 2 - The other way mode (Drive the tracks in reverse mode)
> > > 3 - Mars mode (Race the special outer space secret track)
> > > 4 - Invisible mode (Drive *THROUGH* the other cars)
> > > 5 - Alltime great mode (Lets you hold the lap record for every
> track)
> > > 6 - Rocket mode (Blast those other cars outa the way!)
> > > 7 - Hyperjump mode (Fast forward to any point on the track)
> > > 8 - Micro mode (Race in tiny ickle cars.....from an overhead view)
> > > 9 - No clip mode (Drive *ANYWHERE*, through walls, hedges, etc)
> > > 10 - God mode (infinite fuel, rockets, invisible, indestructible,
> etc)
> > > Get real, this a serious sim, not a PLAYSTATION game!!!!
> > > (Hmmm.........could be fun though?)
> > > 8-)
> > > *Peter* #:-)
http://members.tripod.com/~HOSHUMUNGUS
and
http://www.frontiernet.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm
> > I hope for the sake of the future of GPL on-line that these sort of
> > things never eventuate.
> > I also hope the guys that are working on track and car editors for
GPL
> > take that into account and if they do manage to alter the power
levels
> > and grip levels of the player's car, then they keep it to
themselves.
> > ( please don't ruin another on-line sim)
> > You might think i am being a bit harsh, but it will be a sad day
for
> > on-line racing with GPL, the day a grip/power editor comes out..
> > If you have one, keep it to yourselves, we don't want it !!
> > Cheers,
> > Ron
> --
> Byron Forbes
> Captain of Team Lightning Bolt
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/~HOSHUMUNGUS
> and
> http://www.racesimcentral.net/~godsoe/bolt/home.htm
> > I think that as sim racing online grows that the likes of Papy will seek legal ways to
> >supress anyone from making such utilities available. I think that legally it could be
> >viewed as some type of industrial sabotage.
And, given the size of the "serious" online sim-racing community
compared with total sales of (again), say, F1GP what is the commercial
benfit to the creators and publishers of titles in suppressing third
party utilities from the likes of Paul Hoad? You could argue that it
makes it difficult for publishers to economically produce add-on track
an car sets, but since they've never shown any real interest in such
products (apparently preferring to produce a complete new game rather
than, say an F1GP '98 team/car/driver/track pack) that's a
hypothetical...
Depends what it's going to do.
Check against a set of definable parameters (say the sim analogues of
power, weight, tyre construction and size etc) and ring a bell if a
participants car doesn't conform?
That's good.
Prevent editing or creating new cars (or classes of cars) completely?
That's bad...
--
Jonathon "JayGee" Green
"Death to all fanatics!"
Tweaks like the modern starting grids are already widely in use.
--
_____
/_______\ .\\ a t t h e a d
I XT /~~~~
I 500\_____ 1977' Yamaha XT.Rex 500 Enduro
\____/\__I_I http://matthead.home.pages.de/
> And, given the size of the "serious" online sim-racing community
> compared with total sales of (again), say, F1GP what is the commercial
> benfit to the creators and publishers of titles in suppressing third
> party utilities from the likes of Paul Hoad? You could argue that it
> makes it difficult for publishers to economically produce add-on track
> an car sets, but since they've never shown any real interest in such
> products (apparently preferring to produce a complete new game rather
> than, say an F1GP '98 team/car/driver/track pack) that's a
> hypothetical...
> And, given the size of the "serious" online sim-racing community
> compared with total sales of (again), say, F1GP what is the commercial
> benfit to the creators and publishers of titles in suppressing third
> party utilities from the likes of Paul Hoad? You could argue that it
> makes it difficult for publishers to economically produce add-on track
> an car sets, but since they've never shown any real interest in such
> products (apparently preferring to produce a complete new game rather
> than, say an F1GP '98 team/car/driver/track pack) that's a
> hypothetical...
the truth is that once a game is finished the companies must move onto
the next game to stay ahead of the rest. As for suppressing editor writers
like myself its wise to remember that it is not me that makes the cheat but
the cheater using the tools. And I do nothing that a person with a little
knowledge couldn't do with a hex editor an alot of experimentation.
At the end of the day the online community which is growing is not
the only community I myself have never raced on line or in a offline season
and we underestimate the shear numbers of people playing these sims
who never go online. The tools I provide are aimed at helping ALL people to enjoy
the sims not to allow them to cheat. A cheater is a cheater now matter what
tools he/she has. It would be a sorry day when a publisher would "SUPRESS"
the third party utility writers and a very interesting legal one. That would have
major implications on other areas of computing.
My 2p worth!
Paul Hoad
> > And, given the size of the "serious" online sim-racing community
> > compared with total sales of (again), say, F1GP what is the commercial
> > benfit to the creators and publishers of titles in suppressing third
> > party utilities from the likes of Paul Hoad? You could argue that it
> > makes it difficult for publishers to economically produce add-on track
> > an car sets, but since they've never shown any real interest in such
> > products (apparently preferring to produce a complete new game rather
> > than, say an F1GP '98 team/car/driver/track pack) that's a
> > hypothetical...
> I'm sure your just expressing a hypothetical view in telling me the
> only reason that there are not track packs for games is becuase I choose
> to produced editors for people to edit them themselves, I think not the
> economical benefit is there as I have been approach by Publishers to
> produce track packs for commercial sale so there obviously is a demand.
Actually the view I was attempting (clearly unsucessfully, but then
grammar never was one of my strong points...) to convey was almost the
exact opposite of the interpretation you've made, ie that publishers see
_no_ great commercial benefit in producing add ons for existing games,
preferring instead (as you say) to dedicate their resources to promoting
either completely new products or repackaged versions of an existing
product with a few goodies thrown in as a "mid life kicker" for a
product which is past the first flush of youth (NASCAR 1999?), and that
editors pose _no_ significant threat to their revenue stream...
Since you've been approached to produce track packs for commercial
distribution that clearly acsts some doubt on my theory, but then since
(compared with the considerable number of commercially marketed add on
packs there are for, say, "Doom", or "MS Flight Sim" on the shelves of
my local PC world) such products don't seem to be marketed terribly
aggressively, you have to wonder just how large this market really is.
Incidentally, a friend of mine who races motorcycles on the continent
was left (literally) open mouthed by the fidelity of Zandvoort and the
Nurburgring in "Grand Prix Legends" when I showed it to him, and gave
the impression that he would sell his soul to get his hands on a
similarly accurate rendition (apparently Sega's Manx Superbike doesn't
hack it...) of the IoM TT circuit before this years Manx Grand Prix. I
don't suppose this represents a commercially significant market for a
project on this scale though... :-)
--
Jonathon "JayGee" Green
"Death to all fanatics!"
The closest thing I can think of is Access Software's Links golf game.
In addition to upgrading the features in a new version of the game that
is released about once a year, they also produce quite a few course
packs, with from one to four new golf courses per pack. I believe these
are consistent sellers.
This strategy would seem like a natural fit for the sim racing genre.
Wouldn't it be great to have periodic releases of packs for GPL based on
different seasons? GPL almost appears to be designed with this in
mind. Look at the layout of the file structure with all the season,
track, and AI ini files.
The main stumbling block is probably licensing. Given that Jackie
Stewart doesn't appear in the game and the problems in securing the
Monaco track and the participation of Ferrari, this appears to be a
significant issue. For modern sims like Ubisoft's F1RS series and
Microprose/Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix/World Circuits series, it is even
more difficult, thanks to Bernie Ecclestone and the FIA's outrageous
charges for licensing a particular year.
I know that I am not alone in saying that I would probably buy every
track/season pack for GPL that Papyrus would release.
Dave Ewing
And note that they've since gone to the "enhanced product" (NR99)
marketing model versus add-ons (ICR1 7tracks/IMS+PaintKit, N1 tracks,
N2 BGN).
Me too. :)
"But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was
nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into
a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark
Again: Congratulations to the staff who made GPL!
Arto
[snip]
It's unfortunate; they do not. I was reading this string earlier tonight and decided let's
give it a look-see, I did a good old "pave the world" cheat to test online.
I upped the file to the site below, it's just starting out so it's bare as a bone, thing is I
password protected it so if someone downloads it they need to crack the password to open it.
It was like a normal race, only I could go on the grass and keep the power down.
This is just to let everyone aware that anyone who's handy with hex, programming (I was gonna
post some primitve editing programs for GPL that I recoded from their former ICR2 days, but I
may hold back a bit for a GPL patch so people don't cheat).
http://ontrack.8m.com
--
Jon Van Ginneken
"...come on man...that's not ordinary, that's extrodinary."
--"Iron" Mike Tyson
