rec.autos.simulators

I don't know why I feel the need to post this but I'm going to.  I have
managed to go under the benchmark on my first GPL track!!!  Watkins Glen,
specifically.  OK, I didn't go very much below it with a time of 1.06.70,
but I went under nonetheless.  This is old hat to all of you, but it is a
huge thing for me.  When I first got the game and started messing around
with it, I didn't see how I could ever even approach the benchmark times,
much less get under one.

I started racing with Need For Speed: Hot Pursuit and High Stakes, so you
can imagine what a learning curve it has been to go from those games,
move on to Porsche Unleashed, and end up in GPL.

It's kinda funny how it happened, too.  I was getting frustrated because
I couldn't seem to get under 1.07.  I was still using automatic shifting,
because it was just a disaster every time I tried to switch to manual.  
So I figured, what the heck, I'll try it again with manual shifting.  In
the same session I made the switch, I managed to get under benchmark.  I
couldn't believe it!

Now I have to really get used to doing it manual.  It's one thing to do
it at Watkins Glen where I have done a ton of laps and have memorized
braking points and what gear I should be in, but now what about on other
tracks?  It's pretty ugly.  Spin after spin.  I'm seeking some advice.  I
know you are supposed to lift off the throttle slightly when upshifting.  
How about when braking?  Can you hold down the brake and shift down?  Say
I'm going from 5th to 2nd gear, can I hold the brake pedal down all the
way through the downshifts?  Or am I supposed to brake, lift off the
brake, downshift, brake, lift off, downshift, etc?

Also, when people say stuff like "rev matching" I am just clueless.  My
method has been to use a sort of timing system where I think I've slowed
down enough for a given gear, then shift down.  I'm sure this isn't the
proper method.  Sometimes I shift too early and the back end starts to
come around; sometimes I shift too late and end up having to build up
RPMs for too long.

And, on upshifts... what RPM range should I be doing it at?  I drive the
Eagle and I have been upshifting at around 10k RPM for the most part.

One final question:  Let's say I'm approaching a corner where I'll need
to downshift, I'm accelerating up to it and I get to a point where I can
upshift to 5th gear, but it's only going to be for a very short amount of
time.  Is it quicker to hold at 4th or to go ahead and do the upshift,
even though it might not even last a second that I'll be in the higher
gear?  I don't know if I phrased that properly.

Thanks!

---
Ped Xing

Achim

well done!

I love the Glen, it never fails to challenge me.  I still get a buzz
coming down the hill into the carousel.

People do it differently.  I use the brake to turn the car in, so it's no
good
to be jabbing the brake as you shift.  Keep the brakes at the threshold
all the way in, and shift back when you are slow enough - remember the
gearing is most important when you accelerate, so try to be in the right
gear by the time you start to apply power.

Some drivers shift down gradually, some drivers shift in a flurry of
downshifts
just before they turn in.  It will depend a lot on your driving and your car
setup (and maybe how many modern f1 sims you play :)

You should download that GPL Replay Analyser thingee to help you
time your shifts...

Rev matching is just matching the rpm of the engine to the speed of
the gearbox (ie - rear wheels).  It basically means the drivetrain is
neither pulling nor pushing - in a normal car you can shift gears with
no clutch by matching revs.  I have developed an annoying habit
of blipping the throttle in my own car when shifting down, but I put
that down to liking the sound of my engine.

Like lesmo 1 and 2?  I've read it argued about here a few times, albeit
2nd and 3rd gear.  Every time you shift, you spend some time out of gear
and hence not accelerating.  Also, you can upset the car more shifting
down for the next corner.  If it's an important set of turns, I've found it
useful to slightly alter my gearing so I can stay in one gear.  Or learn
how to take the second corner faster (like lesmo2 in 3rd).

iksteh

<snip>I have managed to go under the benchmark on my first GPL track!!!

Congrats!  Anybody remember; wasn't Dave Mansell the first to go under at
the Glen in the demo way back when?  ;-)

<snip>I know you are supposed to lift off the throttle slightly when
upshifting.  How about when braking?  Can you hold down the brake and shift
down?

Yes, you can, and should.

<snip> Also, when people say stuff like "rev matching" I am just clueless.
My method has been to use a sort of timing system where I think I've slowed
down enough for a given gear, then shift down.

You can blip the throttle when downshifting under braking to "match revs"
and keep from locking the rears.  The effect is a sort of dynamic brake
balance adjustment, controlled by the throttle.  This will let you run a
more rear-biased brake balance, which helps your turn-in, and also let you
benefit more from engine braking and allow you to brake a bit later.  It's
easier to do if you're a left-foot braker.

Eagle and I have been upshifting at around 10k RPM for the most part.

That sounds pretty good, but it really depends on how your gears are set up;
if you have them spaced closely, you don't need to rev the car out as far
before upshifting.  The key is to be in a good spot on the torque curve when
you hit the next gear.  But if you're not blowing the engine with damage on
full, then you're not overdoing it.

though it might not even last a second that I'll be in the higher gear?

If you're not overrevving the engine enough to damage it, stay in 4th.  If
you look at telemetry graphs of really fast laps, you'll notice those
drivers minimize shifting in these situations.  Since GPL automatically
declutches when you shift, you lose drive and you'll always see a bit of
lost time vs. someone who keeps it pinned in the lower gear.

Have fun in your quest for the "dark side"!

SB

<snip>

In that situation you might want to change the 4th gear ratio so that
you don't need to shift up to 5th.  It might only require a small ratio
change and therefore will not cost you a significant amount of
acceleration, and what little time you lose by having a longer 4th will
be easily made up for by getting rid of a shift.  And additionally, you
are getting rid of a downshift into that corner, which will make your
braking more stable.

Thanks!  I know I am not as quick as I could be through that loop.  It's
tricky for me to get it just right.

I mainly play GPL and Live For Speed.  I gave F1 2001 & 2002 a try, but I
couldn't come to grips with the driving.  I think I've had more success,
and have shown much more improvement, playing GPL than either of those
modern F1 sims.

I have that program.  What portion should I use for what you suggest?

Yeah, exactly.  Ok, thanks for all the advice!

I just started with the track that was recommended by Steve Smith in
"Four Wheel Drift". :-)  My friend has taken the opposite approach.  He
has started with the Nurburgring.  I tell him he is crazy.

I'm knocking on the door at Monza, currently +0.516!

Thanks, this seems to be the consensus.