rec.autos.simulators

by **Eldred Picke** » Tue, 16 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>Subject: Re: WARNING!
>Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 16:28:56 GMT

>with:
>> Blah, blah. blah. Shut up! You fail to realize that downloading
>>software does not make one look stupid, more, it makes them look more
>>intelligant.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^
>I'm not touching this one with a ten meter cattle prod.
>_________________________________________
>Tony Johns
>IWCCCARS Project Coordinator
>http://www.racesimcentral.net/~iwcc/project.htm

You have an EXTRA one? I could use it on some people at work<g>.

I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?
Eldred Pickett

by **Steve Sarl** » Tue, 16 Apr 1996 04:00:00

Hey Rick. How much is the track going for now a days? And what's the
number?

Steve

+-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| All the worlds a stage, | ("'-''-/").___..--''"'-._ |
| and there's a comedy playing. | '6_ 6 ) '_. ( ).'-.__.') |
| May as well enjoy the show. | (_Y_.) ._ ) '._ '. ''-..-' |
| | _..'--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,' |

+-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Go Dale Earnhardt #3 | Go Rusty Wallace #2 |
+-----------------------------------+-------------------------------------+
| Split_S on IRC Air Warriors? Not yet but working on it. :-) |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

by **Mark McCue** » Tue, 16 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> > Posting of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Track Pack is a serious
> > violation. Downloading it is also illegal. We are in the process of
> > rectifying the situation and we will take all action possible to protect
> > our rights. We suggest that you cease all activity immediately.

> > Ed Martin
> > Papyrus Design Group

> Yeah right and it's also illegal to pull that tag off of your mattress
> too, but I have never seen anyone get in trouble over it.

That's because you BOUGHT the mattress before you ripped the tag off of
it you feeb!

by **Mike Carrother** » Wed, 17 Apr 1996 04:00:00

(RickGenter) writes:

>>Subject: Re: WARNING!
>>Date: 12 Apr 1996 20:05:25 -0400

>>>DOWNLOADING is illegal?!? Even for those who don't KNOW it?
>>>Hey, it happens...
>>>FTR, I bought mine...<g>

>>Ignorance of the law is not a viable defense. (Just watch Perry
Mason! :-)

>>Rick Genter
>>Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
>>Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

><g>
>I was just ASKIN'...
>But damn, technically, that means we have to know/memorize EVERY law
that's
>currently in force? Some of those are obsolete, and date back past
1850!<G>

>Eldred
>p.s. I *know* it's off the subject, but it just struck me as funny...
>I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?
>Eldred Pickett

It is your job as a citizen of the country in which you live, to know
the laws of that country. If you don't, you are a fool.

Mike

by **RickGent** » Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:00:00

writes:

I don't know how much they're charging for it. The direct order number is
1-800-836-1829.

Rick Genter
Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
Sierra On-Line

by **Eric Kos** » Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>> Posting of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Track Pack is a serious
>> violation. Downloading it is also illegal. We are in the process
of
>> rectifying the situation and we will take all action possible to
protect
>> our rights. We suggest that you cease all activity immediately.

>> Ed Martin
>> Papyrus Design Group

>Yeah right and it's also illegal to pull that tag off of your mattress
>too, but I have never seen anyone get in trouble over it. You guys
>should be thankful for the hacker element, it's probably sold a ton
>of games for you. How many people do you think would have bought
>NASCAR RACING(R) if they would have never been able to get a #3 or
>a Bill Elliott car. The homegrown stuff is what keeps this game
>fresh and you are trying to squelch it...must be the new Sierra gods.

>KB

HERE!!! HERE!!!

by **Ed Marti** » Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> >Yeah right and it's also illegal to pull that tag off of your mattress
> >too, but I have never seen anyone get in trouble over it. You guys
> >should be thankful for the hacker element, it's probably sold a ton
> >of games for you. How many people do you think would have bought
> >NASCAR RACING(R) if they would have never been able to get a #3 or
> >a Bill Elliott car. The homegrown stuff is what keeps this game
> >fresh and you are trying to squelch it...must be the new Sierra gods.

Keith & Eric, you both seem to be confused between the "hacker element" and pirating software.
Yes, we do realize & appreciate the "hacker element". We're gamers here, too, as you might
expect.

However, there is a HUGE difference between exchanging user created cars and illegally
distributing copyrighted software. I'm sure, if you think about it, you can see the difference.

As for the old mattress tag joke, in case you are confused about that as well, it is ILLEGAL for
the vendor to pull off the tag, it is perfectly LEGAL for the buyer to pull it off.

Ed Martin
Papyrus Design Group

P.S. Enforcing copyright protection has nothing to do with the "new Sierra gods", except, of
course, that now, an even bigger organization can help to protect our rights.

by **Eldred Picke** » Thu, 18 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>>>Ignorance of the law is not a viable defense. (Just watch Perry
>Mason! :-)

>>>Rick Genter
>>>Technical Lead, IndyCar Racing II
>>>Papyrus Design Group, Inc.

>><g>
>>I was just ASKIN'...
>>But damn, technically, that means we have to know/memorize EVERY law
>that's
>>currently in force? Some of those are obsolete, and date back past
>1850!<G>

>>Eldred
>>p.s. I *know* it's off the subject, but it just struck me as funny...
>>I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?
>>Eldred Pickett

>It is your job as a citizen of the country in which you live, to know
>the laws of that country. If you don't, you are a fool.
>Mike

Y'know, you don't have to be a JERK about it. Do YOU, as a citizen, know
EVERY ***ING LAW that's on the books?

I am NOT paranoid. And why are you always watching me?!?
Eldred Pickett

by **Eric Kos** » Fri, 19 Apr 1996 04:00:00

element" and pirating software.
here, too, as you might
you can see the difference.

I respect copy right laws (as I did not download the track when
presented it) and Papyrus's right to protect its investment. Im also
glad to see Papyrus regonizes and appreciates the hacker element and
its contribution to that investment, so prehaps this is now a dead
issue. But, point of debate, is a piece of code 'hacked' by another
program created by someone else for use with a third program still
protected by the original copyright when transfered free of charge
between users? Im not sure of the answer and prehaps can be
enlightend.

by **Ed Marti** » Sat, 20 Apr 1996 04:00:00

> >Keith & Eric, you both seem to be confused between the "hacker
> element" and pirating software.
> >Yes, we do realize & appreciate the "hacker element". We're gamers
> here, too, as you might
> >expect.

> >However, there is a HUGE difference between exchanging user created
> cars and illegally
> >distributing copyrighted software. I'm sure, if you think about it,
> you can see the difference.

> >Ed Martin
> >Papyrus Design Group

> I respect copy right laws (as I did not download the track when
> presented it) and Papyrus's right to protect its investment. Im also
> glad to see Papyrus regonizes and appreciates the hacker element and
> its contribution to that investment, so prehaps this is now a dead
> issue. But, point of debate, is a piece of code 'hacked' by another
> program created by someone else for use with a third program still
> protected by the original copyright when transfered free of charge
> between users? Im not sure of the answer and prehaps can be
> enlightend.

I'm not sure I follow what you're asking... but..

1) If you're asking "if after someone hacks a piece of copyrighted code, can it be transmitted
'free'". No! Here's an anology... you go into Windows 95 & "hack" the name to Windows 96. Do
you think the copyright still applies? I bet Bill Gates beleieves it does.

2) If you're asking "if I run a copyrighted piece of code through some third party tanslation
utility, can it be transmitted 'free'" (e.g. run the Indy Track Pack through the converter that
makes it work with NASCAR). No!!! Automated hacking or not, the copyright applies. Period.

Feel free to tear off all the mattress tags you want (as long as you don't work at the store),
but do not get involved in the transmission of copyrighted software... hacked or not.

Ed Martin
Papyrus Design Group

by **Mike Donnel** » Sun, 21 Apr 1996 04:00:00

>>> Posting of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Track Pack is a serious
>>> violation. Downloading it is also illegal. We are in the process
>of
>>> rectifying the situation and we will take all action possible to
>protect
>>> our rights. We suggest that you cease all activity immediately.

>>> Ed Martin
>>> Papyrus Design Group

>>Yeah right and it's also illegal to pull that tag off of your mattress
>>too, but I have never seen anyone get in trouble over it. You guys
>>should be thankful for the hacker element, it's probably sold a ton
>HERE!!! HERE!!!

It's not the conversion that Ed and Papyrus are objecting to. It's the fact
that some has the Indianapolis Track Pack available for download. Not the
conversion. As long as Papyrus is still selling the Track Pack (and with
Gerhard's conversion, it could be a *long* time) they have every right (both
legally [which given the current legal system I'm not overly impressed] and
morally - ethically if you will) to protect their product from illegal
transmission. That's what Ed's post is all about. If they stopped
producing and selling the ITP, then it would be a petty argument, but since
Sierra bought out Papyrus, the Papyrus division will need all the cash it
can get it's hands on to keep it's talent in house, so if you really do want
to support Papyrus and keep thier quality level where it is (or improve it)
folks need to buy this stuff to keep them going. Otherwise they'll go the
way of other Sierra buyouts - down the tube.

Mike

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