rec.autos.simulators

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

Eldre

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Eldre » Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:00:00



>As for other advice, you might already know this about Masta, but it caused
>me much grief until I caught on. The track dips in the transition area
>leading to the right hander. You need to have already turned in and be on
>the gas before you get there. As for the other turns, I don't know them by
>name. Generally, smooth transitions and balance are the key to speed at Spa,
>more so, it seems, than some other tracks.

>Michael.

Masta, or Malmedy?  Malmedy is the one with the greater elevation change, and
the flaggs on the right.  I know there IS a drop at Masta, but I don't think
THAT'S what's giving me problems.  I'll have to check that again, thanks.

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
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Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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Eldre

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Eldre » Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:00:00


writes:

Thanks!  I'll check it...
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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Michael Youn

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Michael Youn » Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Masta: the fast left-right that you don't even notice on a track map, about
6.5 klicks from the start-finish. There's a definite, but slight, bowl-like
dip between turn-in and apex on the right-hander. It's difficult to see from
the replays, but it's enough to unload the rears if you're not on line. If
you lose it and catch it, you're on the wire fence on the outside. If you
lose it and spin, you go off the inside, to the right. If you lose it and
save it, you were too slow. Sound familiar?

Anyway, it's not too difficult if you take the left-hand well. You're toast
if you turn-in too soon and clip the inside; chances are you're too fast to
catch it in time to balance and turn-in for the leftie. The speed and early
apex forces you too close to the rail to turn in, with no room left to take
it off line. You're toast. For us meer mortals who must lift to get through
Masta, the trick is to balance early and get some weight on the rears before
the little dip trips you up ever so briefly. Taken well, you wonder what all
the e***ment is about. :-) And then it reminds you the next time you're
off line just a hair. Masta is about driving the line, not just speed
control.

For the geographically disinclined (like me), the verbal description in
Smith's bible translates to:

Eau Rouge: at the bottom below the start-finish and going back uphill.
Haute de la Cote: the left hand semi- hairpin at the hilltop.
Burnenville: the left-left sweepers.
Malmedy: uphill left, downhill right-left-right
Masta: my grave marker lies in the field beyond the left hander.
Stavelot: the right-right-right sweeper.
Cottage: faster of the two right-handers.
Quarry: the second right hander. (Maybe versa vice on Cottage and Quarry).
Blanchimont: left, left, right, left
La Source: the hairpin.

Overall, it's funny how speed telescopes distances so you don't recognize
the track map. :-)

I don't know what you mean by La Carriere... it translates to "the career",
and 100 mph is too slow for any curve that comes to mind. The Cottage and
Quarry right handers almost match, but 100 is way slow for the second one.
Oh, I see it now, on the game's track map. Look closely in the replays, and
you'll see a shallow bowl in the track surface at the apex there. You can
take advantage of slightly better turning inside the bowl, somewhat like a
very small Karrusel (ala Nurburgring). Turn in faster, earlier, and wider
than you might think, aiming almost wide of an earlier apex. The bowl will
catch you, signalling the gas-on point, and you can turn in just a hair more
to hit the real apex, or just hold it as you moosh on the gas. The bowl
spits you out, unwinding and drifting nicely to the track edge, throttle
already full down in high third gear.

The preceding right hander is a compromise corner coming off the second left
hand kink past Stavelot. I drag the brakes a touch, almost enough to drop
into fourth, but not quite. Prydden's speed says he's lifting the gas some
before mashing back down; I don't know how he does that. A textbook late
apex allowing for the slight crown gets me through OK.

Blanchimont's first left is not as tight as it looks. Late apex, and watch
the road crown on exit. A textbook late apex and drift to track-out puts you
in the dirt and up the berm. Hold toward the inside until late through the
exit, taking advantage of the high crown. Again, Prydden's 136 mph here is
almost super-human.

His exit from Blanchimont's final left at 168 mph says he's flat out all the
way through. I clip the dirt on the inside, but still have to breathe the
gas on entry to stay off the rail on exit. There are some dips and crowning
at the exit, going uphill, that I haven't examined yet; the key to this one
probably lies there as well. Just watch the AI cars squirmthrough that exit.
My line here is wider than theirs, but at least they're not gaining.

Last, easiest, and perhaps most important (aside from Masta): the key to
Stavelot is to not push too hard too early. Otherwise, you find yourself
fighting to get back to the inside, inevitably lifting or at least delaying
gas-on. From entry to exit, keep enough throttle to hold the rears from
unloading as you let the engine slow you through the decreasing radius
turns; no brakes. Gas-on for the third and final right hander is before the
stone bridge, well before you clip what looks like the apex, but not too
soon. You'll know you hit it well, or got too slow, when the gas goes down
early and stays down. Your shift-up point will tell you which it was.

Hope that helps, and it sure would be nice if I could do all that on every
lap. Good luck.

Michael.

Eldre

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Eldre » Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Very... :)  I usually lose it into the wire fence...

So, instead of neutral throttle(or coasting) through both turns, you hit the
gas in *between* the two to load the rear of the car?!?  My balls aren't that
big yet... :)
But, what the hell.  If I crash, it's only cost me 3 1/2 minutes, not my
LIFE...  Sims are great!

Never noticed that.  I'll have to look *closer* at the replays...

I usually don't get back on the gas hard until AFTER the bridge.  I'm not in
the right spot on the track, methinks.
Thanks, Michael!  I'll be down to 3:15 by...2005...MAYBE<g>

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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Michael Youn

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Michael Youn » Fri, 28 Jan 2000 04:00:00

Come to think of it, it wasn't obvious at all before FF. Quarry was pretty
much a ***shoot then, even knowing about the little depression at the
apex. Sometimes I would make it, and other times I wouldn't, and I never
understood why. With FF, you'll feel it load up strongly and then release
again.

Michael.


Benjami

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Benjami » Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:00:00



Believe it or not, I "turned the corner" to starting to learn at
Silverstone. Until I pulled out on it, I was still completely overwhelmed by
the power and response of the cars, and just had no idea what to do with it.
I started completing laps at Silverstone and started understanding the
nature of the beast, and afterwards I could make laps at other tracks that
previously I had just gone from one off to the next.

Silverstone is a nice place to learn drifting skills and turn speed limits.
Zaandvoort is good for rythym
Monaco is good for bursting your bubble when you think you're getting good
<G>
Mosport is a nice place to hone your look ahead and setting up turns (love
that damn track - first laps on it were in that monster BRM - had a
blast...)
I don't know what Mexico is good for - seems like it could some day be
fun...
Spa (mmmmm, Spaaa) is good for adrenaline rushes
Monza - good for learning close high speed traffic - and some soiled undies
<G>
As for a minimum - one track - Nurburgring - absolutely everything.... tight
corners, fast corners, elevation changes (Flugplatz! <G>) hairy assed top
end runs, sudden changes from high speed to hard braking.....

Michael E. Carve

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Michael E. Carve » Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:00:00


<snip>
% I don't know what Mexico is good for - seems like it could some day be
% fun...
<snip>

Purely for technical skills......  This is a pure "technic" track.  Put
everything together you have learned at every other track into one
driving package.

In some ways,  many portions of Mexico are very similar to Silverstone.
I start my basica Mexico setups from working Silverstone setups.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Eldre

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Eldre » Sun, 30 Jan 2000 04:00:00



>Come to think of it, it wasn't obvious at all before FF. Quarry was pretty
>much a ***shoot then, even knowing about the little depression at the
>apex. Sometimes I would make it, and other times I wouldn't, and I never
>understood why. With FF, you'll feel it load up strongly and then release
>again.

>Michael.

Well that's it, then.  I don't have FF...
Oh well.  On the up side, I'm down to 3:28.xx(once).  Can't seem to do it
again...

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Own Grand Prix Legends?  Goto  http://www.racesimcentral.net/

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Michael Youn

Geez, I'm slow at Spa...

by Michael Youn » Mon, 31 Jan 2000 04:00:00

On that note, have you seen the Spa track notes? There's a package with a
Word doc file plus several replays. There was a link to it at
www.theuspits.com. I'm ill from listening to them***er over milliseconds
around 3:13. :-)

The "dips" I mentioned might be nothing more than crossing the road crown.
I'm not really sure now after going back to watch the weight transitions
frame by frame.

Michael.



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