rec.autos.simulators

I don't remember.  I'll have to check...

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Silverstone/Zandvoort:
  ramp 85/30
  diff 8/31
  clutches 4

Mexico:
  ramp 85/30
  diff 8/31
  clutches 4

All from Alison's Ferrari setups.  Does that mean anything to you?

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.racesimcentral.net/~epickett
F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

sure does mean a lot! I never knew Alison put so much coast side locking
into her diff.

The 85/30 ramp angle is the default in GPL setups, and is really the
easist but not the fastest to drive. The first ramp angle number
represents the locking power of the differential on applied throttle,
and the second one on throttle released (coast). The higher the number,
the lower the locking. The higher number of clutches also increases the
locking of the wheels. The diff number is just the gear ratioo fht
differential and is not important for this discussion.

Basically, on the coast side you don't want much locking at all, as in a
corner situation with throttle idle in a locking case both rear wheels
will get some stabilizing torque in the longitudinal direction, and
invariably this will produce some midturn understeer. On the other hand,
a low ramp angle (high locking) on the coast side will help stabilize
the car under braking and turn-in.

If you are doing a lot of trail braking, then you will want to have more
locking on the coast side (second number) as it will help stabilize the
car and you will compensate for any midturn understeer by staying on the
brakes and transitioning immediately to the throttle (I'm not talking
about simultaneous application of throttle and brake here, but braking
deep into the corner). Then, the setup as you've given it is pretty much
what you want.

I, however, prefer to not do that much trailbraking in GPL (in Nascar 4,
however, this is much, much easier to do and I use it there), as it
really tends to upset the car and with my level of skill I find it
(mildly) efficient only for hotlapping. Therefore, I prefer use a higher
coast side number, and this introduces drifting with neutral throttle
that wasn't quite possible before.

I suggest you start with an 85/60 differential with 4 clutches (i.e.
only alter the coast ramp number), especially in a place like Zandvoort
where there is a lot of sweeping turns. What you will need to alter
simultaneously will be the rear anti roll bar, decrease this setting
until additional oversteer thbat was introduced by the differential is
compensated for.

You might find cars extremely responsive on turn in, but don't dismiss
the setup just yet, as with altering your driving style just a little
bit by trying not to turn in before the entire braking is almost done,
and transitioning to the throttle immediately afterwards, you should
find the sweeps of Zandvoort much more pleasant and easy to handle.

I hope this is of some use,

-Gregor

Eldred, have you tried Roland Ehnstroehms (sp?) setups? I find
them very balanced and great to drive for any chassis he's
cared to release setups for. I usually take front roll bar down
a notch, and the car works beautifully.

cheers,

uwe

--
Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/
Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E)
Ever wondered what's wrong with the world?      http://bnetwork.com/
PGP Fingerprint:  2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F  67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

| Hi Eldred,
<snipped for space>

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Actually, I *don't* do much trailbraking.  The only time I'm on the brakes deep
into a corner is when I've screwed up and hit it way too fast...

Well, I'm going to print this out to study until I understand it.  I should
finish by sometime next week...<g>  You said Alison's settings are easy, but
not the fastest.  If I change the differential to a higher number, that means
the car will become more tail-happy, correct?  I've heard that the fastest car
is a loose one, but I've never heard why.  Response?<g>
Thanks, Gregor.

Eldred
--
Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
F1 hcp. +25.37...F2 +151.26...

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

fastest car
  The reason is simple....because the UNIVERSE knew clutz's like me couldn't
keep up with a loose car....ergo...
I'm doooommmmed to be a slug.
dave henrie

actually, I would say Alison's setups are easy and rather fast in a
racing condition, they're just not what I would call hotlapping
material, and to my knowledge this was not their intent in the first
place. For racing, the most important thing is that the car is
responsive (i.e. you can easily go from under- to oversteer and the
opposite at demand), speed comes naturally from that.

Actually, the fastest car is the neutral car. If the car is either
oversteering or understeering badly, it means that one corner of a car
lost its optimal grip, while the other is still not achieving its full
potential, so the total force produced is lower than it would be if the
point of optimal grip is simultaneously reached both front and rear.

Unfortunately, the above situation is very much idealized, and the
ballance changes with applications of throttle and brake, so a neutral
car will find itself oversteering at some points on the circuit and
understeering at other ones. Since the oversteering condition is an
unstable one, whenever you provoke tha car too badly you loose the car,
and a generally neutral setup can be labeled as an oversteering one
quickly when it actually isn't.

Therefore you are striving for a very neutral car, one which, at neutral
(not idle!) throttle drifts nicely through a corner. Such a car can
easily be tailored to either produce an oversteer or understeer by an
application of throttle. Since oversteer can quickly lead to a spin, you
err on the side of caution by indroducing a bit of understeer to leave
some margin for driver error, however, as close to a neutral setup you
can come to be able to control it, the faster you will be. That's
probably where the answer to your question is.

-Gregor

P.S.: about the differential; yes, a higher number means more oversteer.
With higher settings on the coast side, the car is much more responsive
on lift off, and this is good to set the initial attitude of the car for
a corner, and, if the setup is good, you need to apply about neutral
throttle when going of the apex (see the neutral car definition), zero
throttle will provoke oversteer. It takes a while to get used to, at
least it did for me, but after I came to grips with it (bad pun, bad
pun!) it was the first time I felt that I am not fighting the car in
GPL.