rec.autos.simulators

by **Schumache** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Yesterday i went to the Spa-Francorchamps Grand Prix. Trust me all the F1
games are so off the real sound they make. First of all to make it realistic
u would have to turn your speakers or the way to the max and have treble and
bass also at the max. Then u would probably get half the noise they make
when they reached they pass 300kmh. Then the sound is nothing like what u
get on TV, when I say nothing I mean nothing. When does things downshifts u
hear this big boom that's sounds as if a granade blew up in the exaust pipe.
But the game designers probably don't want to simulate the real engine noise
cause it makes u so dizzy. To bad Schumacher wasn't there or we wouldn't
have seen the Mercedes winning like that. And by the way Mercedes doesn't
actually make the engined actually they do as much work as Malboro does for
Ferrari, they give a big check. and someone else makes the engine for
Mercedes and Mercedes then puts it's name on it. I wonder why it is allowed.

Schumacher

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

That's why people wear hearing protectors.

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by **Steve Ferguso** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

: have seen the Mercedes winning like that. And by the way Mercedes doesn't
: actually make the engined actually they do as much work as Malboro does for
: Ferrari, they give a big check. and someone else makes the engine for
: Mercedes and Mercedes then puts it's name on it. I wonder why it is allowed.

Yamaha makes the engines for some Toyota and Ford road cars. They are
still Fords and Toyotas. Whoever writes the cheques gets to put their
name on it. I would rather have a well-funded Ilmor engine with a
Mercedes badge on it than a poorly funded Ilmor that goes bang. Mercedes
learns something from the technology transfer (just as Cosworth
fabrication techniques made it into Ford engine castings) so it is a good
symbiosis.

I see nothing wrong with it.

Stephen

by **Alan Gauto** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

> Yamaha makes the engines for some Toyota and Ford road cars. They are
> still Fords and Toyotas. Whoever writes the cheques gets to put their
> name on it. I would rather have a well-funded Ilmor engine with a
> Mercedes badge on it than a poorly funded Ilmor that goes bang. Mercedes
> learns something from the technology transfer (just as Cosworth
> fabrication techniques made it into Ford engine castings) so it is a good
> symbiosis.

> I see nothing wrong with it.

Nor do I - of course Ford now own Cosworth though.

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by **Jan Hoviu** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

> Yesterday i went to the Spa-Francorchamps Grand Prix. Trust me all the F1
> games are so off the real sound they make. First of all to make it realistic
> u would have to turn your speakers or the way to the max and have treble and
> bass also at the max. Then u would probably get half the noise they make
> when they reached they pass 300kmh. Then the sound is nothing like what u
> get on TV, when I say nothing I mean nothing. When does things downshifts u
> hear this big boom that's sounds as if a granade blew up in the exaust pipe.
> But the game designers probably don't want to simulate the real engine noise
> cause it makes u so dizzy. To bad Schumacher wasn't there or we wouldn't
> have seen the Mercedes winning like that. And by the way Mercedes doesn't
> actually make the engined actually they do as much work as Malboro does for
> Ferrari, they give a big check. and someone else makes the engine for
> Mercedes and Mercedes then puts it's name on it. I wonder why it is allowed.

> Schumacher

I've been there too, I too admit the real sound of those machines from hell is
almost the most impressive experience of being there. But.... I disagree
slightly with your opinion on the total misimplementation of the sounds in the
sims. You seem to forget the sound you hear in the sim(s) are the sounds
experienced by the driver wearing a helmet. I do think it is quite different
compared to what we ('the spectators') experience alongside the track. I myself
don't know how it sounds since I've never been close to one of those machines
in real life, :-( , but I do know it defenitely can't be that loud inside
otherwise it would be impossible for the drivers to give an press-conference
afterwards :<)

Concerning the race: This has been one of the most boring spa-events in the
last couple of years. It seems that since Ferrari isnt getting the right
feedback from Irvine to get the car back in competition with the McLarens.
Therefore I do think that Schumacher is one of the 'big ones' when it comes to
completeness: He not only is one of the best drivers, he also knows to give the
right feedback to the mechanics!

Just my 0.02

Jan.

by **Schumache** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Actually I can see a lot of things wrong of that. Next year BMW will team up
with Williams and BMW i supposed to have made the world's most advanced
engine ever. I trust them, they made the M5 engine, the world's most
advanced road car engine and they also built the McLaren F1, which is the
fastest production car ever even if it is not in production any more. But
when it says Powered By BMW it's actually powered by BMW and u'll probably
see some F1 technology applied is so way to their cars. But when u see
Powered By Mercedes it's actually paid by Mercedes. Why can't they just say
it? They didn't make it, so why should they get the credit? Cause they paid
for it? Obviously, Yes. They pay Ilmor so they can obviously do put whatever
name on it. But when I go tell Mercedes fans that the engines are not made
by Mercedes and they say how stupid I am and they have proof cause on their
shirts it says Powered by Mercedes that's different. They shouldn't hide it
like that and it should say on the engine. F1 is not as it used to be. Just
like everyhting else in the world F1 is being destroyed by big money.

let's hope that Schumi isn't forced to be driver number two. Irvine is not
gonna win the world championship, that's for sure, did u see how far behind
Irvine was from Hakkinen and Coulthard?. But Schumacher can atleast try to
make Ferrari win the constructor's championship. Hakkinen is in another
class then Irvine's but Schumacher is atleast 3 classes better then
Hakkinen.

Schumacher

> : have seen the Mercedes winning like that. And by the way Mercedes
doesn't
> : actually make the engined actually they do as much work as Malboro does
for
> : Ferrari, they give a big check. and someone else makes the engine for
> : Mercedes and Mercedes then puts it's name on it. I wonder why it is
allowed.

> Yamaha makes the engines for some Toyota and Ford road cars. They are
> still Fords and Toyotas. Whoever writes the cheques gets to put their
> name on it. I would rather have a well-funded Ilmor engine with a
> Mercedes badge on it than a poorly funded Ilmor that goes bang. Mercedes
> learns something from the technology transfer (just as Cosworth
> fabrication techniques made it into Ford engine castings) so it is a good
> symbiosis.

> I see nothing wrong with it.

> Stephen

by **Schumache** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Yeah I'm sure the pilots wear some kind of ear protection or else it would
be impossible to stay in one of those things for 1.5 hours.

Schumacher

> > Yesterday i went to the Spa-Francorchamps Grand Prix. Trust me all the
F1
> > games are so off the real sound they make. First of all to make it
realistic
> > u would have to turn your speakers or the way to the max and have treble
and
> > bass also at the max. Then u would probably get half the noise they make
> > when they reached they pass 300kmh. Then the sound is nothing like what
u
> > get on TV, when I say nothing I mean nothing. When does things
downshifts u
> > hear this big boom that's sounds as if a granade blew up in the exaust
pipe.
> > But the game designers probably don't want to simulate the real engine
noise
> > cause it makes u so dizzy. To bad Schumacher wasn't there or we
wouldn't
> > have seen the Mercedes winning like that. And by the way Mercedes
doesn't
> > actually make the engined actually they do as much work as Malboro does
for
> > Ferrari, they give a big check. and someone else makes the engine for
> > Mercedes and Mercedes then puts it's name on it. I wonder why it is
allowed.

> > Schumacher

> I've been there too, I too admit the real sound of those machines from
hell is
> almost the most impressive experience of being there. But.... I disagree
> slightly with your opinion on the total misimplementation of the sounds in
the
> sims. You seem to forget the sound you hear in the sim(s) are the sounds
> experienced by the driver wearing a helmet. I do think it is quite
different
> compared to what we ('the spectators') experience alongside the track. I
myself
> don't know how it sounds since I've never been close to one of those
machines
> in real life, :-( , but I do know it defenitely can't be that loud inside
> otherwise it would be impossible for the drivers to give an
press-conference
> afterwards :<)

> Concerning the race: This has been one of the most boring spa-events in
the
> last couple of years. It seems that since Ferrari isnt getting the right
> feedback from Irvine to get the car back in competition with the McLarens.
> Therefore I do think that Schumacher is one of the 'big ones' when it
comes to
> completeness: He not only is one of the best drivers, he also knows to
give the
> right feedback to the mechanics!

> Just my 0.02

> Jan.

by **Steve Ferguso** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

: engine ever. I trust them, they made the M5 engine, the world's most
: advanced road car engine and they also built the McLaren F1, which is the

I suppose the designers of the Honda S2000 would debate that point.

: name on it. But when I go tell Mercedes fans that the engines are not made
: by Mercedes and they say how stupid I am and they have proof cause on their
: shirts it says Powered by Mercedes that's different. They shouldn't hide it
: like that and it should say on the engine. F1 is not as it used to be. Just
: like everyhting else in the world F1 is being destroyed by big money.

Sounds like the problem rests with you, and your insistence of pushing
your opinion. I would say F1 is enhanced by big money. There's no other
way to support the crazy pace of design and development.

: let's hope that Schumi isn't forced to be driver number two. Irvine is not
: gonna win the world championship, that's for sure, did u see how far behind
: Irvine was from Hakkinen and Coulthard?. But Schumacher can atleast try to
: make Ferrari win the constructor's championship. Hakkinen is in another
: class then Irvine's but Schumacher is atleast 3 classes better then
: Hakkinen.

Please try to keep on topic...

Let me explain this one more time. F1 cannot go back to the good old days
of 1967. Budgets are multi-million. Manufacturers and teams try to find
the best solutions for their money. If they choose to use in-house
engineering, or if they choose to contract out, it is a business decision.
I don't think anyone (well, almost anyone) cares what name is on the cam
covers. I think Mercedes hands-off involvement is great. It allows an
independant engine fabricator to flourish (and anyone with half a brain
knows that they are Ilmor engines), which is very much in the spirit of
the good old days, but brought forward to the economic realities of the
90s.

Stephen

by **Christof Velmeri** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

No, they dont. And Cosworth is in the meantime bought by Audi/VW not Ford.

by **Andrew Middleto** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>>I trust them, they made the M5 engine, the world's most
>> advanced road car engine and they also built the McLaren F1
>No, they dont. And Cosworth is in the meantime bought by Audi/VW not Ford.

VW bought the entire Cosworth group off Vickers. The motorsports section was
then sold to Ford almost exactly one year ago.

Andy.

by **Beeler** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

By the way "Schumacher" it's also well known that Ferrari actaully didn't
design their later engines (the V 10). An ex Honda F1 engineer does designing.
What I find amazing is Ferrari lets a Frenchman run their F1 program. Odd.

by **Rolf Hansso** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

Well in the context of racing, you are wrong.....

http://www.ontrackonline.com/issues/1998-08-06/newsnotes.html

Ford Buys Cosworth Racing
Ford has safeguarded the long-term future of its motorsport programs,
including Formula 1, Champ Car racing and touring cars, by agreeing to buy
the racing division of Cosworth from its new owners at Audi.

The move was predicted by Jackie Stewart at the Canadian Grand Prix and
finally came to fruition after negotiations at the British Grand Prix.

"The deal is ideal for all parties concerned," said Martin Whitaker, Ford's
director of European Motorsport. "Ford has gained full control of its own
motorsport destiny, Audi has the elements it requires for its product
program, and the shareholders of Vickers (former Cosworth owners) have
gained a fair price for the company."

Cosworth Racing will remain at its Northampton base in the United Kingdom,
and its United States operation, Cosworth Racing Inc., which serves the
Championship Auto Racing Teams program, will continue at its Los Angeles,
Calif., facility.

The news safeguards Ford's works F1 program with Stewart, which has two
years to run and increased speculation that the Ford hierarchy favors a new
deal with Benetton. Fuel was added to that particular fire at Silverstone
when it became known that Benetton boss David Richards's Prodrive company
will take over the preparation of Ford's British Touring Car Championship
Mondeos from West Surrey Racing. West Surrey has represented the Blue Oval
for the past three seasons.

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by **Andrew Middleto** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

>By the way "Schumacher" it's also well known that Ferrari actaully didn't
>design their later engines (the V 10). An ex Honda F1 engineer does
designing.
>What I find amazing is Ferrari lets a Frenchman run their F1 program. Odd.

This is getting bizarre. So, for it to be a "proper" Ferrari, does it have
to be designed and run by people who were born in the factory ?

Andy.

by **don hodgdo** » Tue, 31 Aug 1999 04:00:00

No, of course not, just those concieved in the factory parking lot<g>.

don

[|]-(_)-[|]

>This is getting bizarre. So, for it to be a "proper" Ferrari, does it have
>to be designed and run by people who were born in the factory ?

>Andy.

by **Bruce Kennewel** » Wed, 01 Sep 1999 04:00:00

Not odd at all....simply Ferrari finally catching up with what other teams
have been doing for 20+ years....using expertise (other than drivers)
available from outside the national borders.

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rec.autos.simulators

sounds, oh my god.

sounds, oh my god.

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