rec.autos.simulators

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 23 Jan 2003 13:01:53

Got a decent feel in my FFB wheel in NR2002 by using 30% Damping--but I have
never understood why that number works best. What exactly is the Damping
slider doing?

Noticed that in the demo, Damping defaults to 0. Tried it there for a
while, then switched to 100% and then to 50%. I think I have ended up back
at 30% as feeling the best, but it is totally "seat of the pants."

Can anyone explain what that slider is actually adjusting?

Thanks,

Marc

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by **Joachim Trens** » Thu, 23 Jan 2003 20:41:06

Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement down,
like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud.

By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at the
cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically become less
clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other
effects.

Achim

by **Bob** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 02:34:08

And all this time I thought by having damping set at zero I was keeping any
overnight dew from accumulating on my wheel.

> Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement
down,
> like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud.

> By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at the
> cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically become
less
> clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other
> effects.

> Achim

> > ...Damping - Can anyone explain what that slider is actually adjusting?

by **Joachim Trens** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 03:26:34

<g>

Achim

> And all this time I thought by having damping set at zero I was keeping
any
> overnight dew from accumulating on my wheel.

> > Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement
> down,
> > like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud.

> > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at
the
> > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically become
> less
> > clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other
> > effects.

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 05:22:46

One positive thing that comes with damping, IMO, is the feeling of weight
transfer. Since it is a friction effect, but the friction required to turn
the wheels against the ground varies with weight, turning up damping
increases the feel you get from weight transfer. At 100% damping it is
definitely overdone though, I tend to keep it at 50% or less.

BTW Achim, just where in any NR series game have you been driving in deep
mud? ;o)

> Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement
down,
> like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud.

> By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at the
> cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically become
less
> clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other
> effects.

> Achim

> > ...Damping - Can anyone explain what that slider is actually adjusting?

by **Joachim Trens** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:10:32

Hi Haqsau,

good point about the mud <g>

I usually have damping set to 1%. That gives you a hint of damping without
blanking out the subtle spring effects.

Achim

...

by **Gerry Aitke** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 07:24:58

> Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement down,
> like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud.

I hate to disagree with you, Achim, but I think you are confusing the
'Damping' value used in papy sims with the 'damper effects strength'
setting that FFB wheels offer in their controller setting.

I don't think the two are related because the 'damping' setting in GPL &
N2002 is only used to reduce oscillations in FFB. Also I've been told
that papy sims don't use damper effects because these effects are
canned.

I agree that this is how damping works, but I think it is just damping
the FFB and not adding any additional forces into the equation.

Gerry

by **Mitch_** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:26:03

I think you may be on to something Gerry. Can you give any more details
about the oscillation effect? That's how I would describe what I feel in
NR6 demo. Instead of a constant force throughout the corner I get these
oscillations of heavy effect then light effect then back and forth. I use a
Momo racing with no wingman software. I had it perfect in GTR2k2 with few
adjustments but NR6 has no happy spot that I can find ;)

Control Panel settings?
In game settings?

Mitch

> > Damping sets the strength of all effects that slow the wheel movement
down,
> > like friction in the steering column, or driving in deep mud.

> I hate to disagree with you, Achim, but I think you are confusing the
> 'Damping' value used in papy sims with the 'damper effects strength'
> setting that FFB wheels offer in their controller setting.

> I don't think the two are related because the 'damping' setting in GPL &
> N2002 is only used to reduce oscillations in FFB. Also I've been told
> that papy sims don't use damper effects because these effects are
> canned.

> > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at
the
> > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically become
less
> > clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other

> I agree that this is how damping works, but I think it is just damping
> the FFB and not adding any additional forces into the equation.

> Gerry

by **Joachim Trens** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 09:57:13

Hi Gerry,

thanks for the info. I probably never noticed that there aren't any real
damping effects as when set to 1%, they're quite subtle <g>

Apologies to the guy I gave incorrect information to.

Achim

...

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:01:25

It's the same, but a different implementation. From what I have heard at
www.wingmanteam.com, Papy implements their damper effect within their
physics model, and therefore the end result is that it only modifies the
force that is sent to the FFB device, instead of sending a damper effect.
This allows them tighter control of the effect, at the expense of requiring
a latency correction to prevent problems. But the idea behind the effect is
still the same - a force that is proportional to and opposed to steering
wheel motion.

by **Marc Collin** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 12:24:25

OK...so what the hell should we be setting the slider to??? :)

Marc

> It's the same, but a different implementation. From what I have heard at
> www.wingmanteam.com, Papy implements their damper effect within their
> physics model, and therefore the end result is that it only modifies the
> force that is sent to the FFB device, instead of sending a damper effect.
> This allows them tighter control of the effect, at the expense of
requiring
> a latency correction to prevent problems. But the idea behind the effect
is
> still the same - a force that is proportional to and opposed to steering
> wheel motion.

> > I hate to disagree with you, Achim, but I think you are confusing the
> > 'Damping' value used in papy sims with the 'damper effects strength'
> > setting that FFB wheels offer in their controller setting.

> > I don't think the two are related because the 'damping' setting in GPL &
> > N2002 is only used to reduce oscillations in FFB. Also I've been told
> > that papy sims don't use damper effects because these effects are
> > canned.

> > > By increasing the Damping value, you will feel these effects more, at
> the
> > > cost of feeling less of the other effects. The FF will basically
become
> less
> > > clear, as there'll always be some damping force blanking out the other

> > I agree that this is how damping works, but I think it is just damping
> > the FFB and not adding any additional forces into the equation.

> > Gerry

by **Joachim Trens** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 19:53:55

I've always set it to something very low, like 0% or 1%. I'd only increase
it if the car/steering suffers from apparently self-induced
left/right-oscillations.

Achim

by **Haqsa** » Fri, 24 Jan 2003 20:15:43

Whatever you like of course. ;o) I have read your posts about FF in GPL.
You use very different settings than I do, but I don't doubt that you are
very satisfied with them. I would think that in your case you would want
damping at 100%, latency at 0, and strength at 100%. Not sure if that will
give you the same feel you get in GPL, but it should be similar.

by **Marc Collin** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 02:01:06

100% damping is terrible in NR2002 and in the demo so far. As I said, 30%
seems to feel about right, but I still don't know why.

What do you use in GPL and with what wheel?

Marc

> Whatever you like of course. ;o) I have read your posts about FF in GPL.
> You use very different settings than I do, but I don't doubt that you are
> very satisfied with them. I would think that in your case you would want
> damping at 100%, latency at 0, and strength at 100%. Not sure if that
will
> give you the same feel you get in GPL, but it should be similar.

> > OK...so what the hell should we be setting the slider to??? :)

> > Marc

by **Larr** » Sat, 25 Jan 2003 06:27:57

LOL! I'm glad someone finally asked :)

Larry

rec.autos.simulators

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?

NR2003: What is "Damping"?