rec.autos.simulators

by **MWB** » Fri, 21 Jan 2005 13:50:03

I race N2003 on line and that is going south. What is next? I've never raced
an EA Sports sim. Tell me something good is coming down the pike.

Mark

by **Jussi Koukk** » Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:30:20

wrote something like:

GTR.

If long exposure to Papy sims has given you chronic allergy to ISI
engined sims, then I'd suggest the GTP mod for N2003 instead.
--
- Jussi Koukku -

by **David G Fishe** » Fri, 21 Jan 2005 23:41:30

rFactor.

--
David G Fisher

by **MadDAW** » Sat, 22 Jan 2005 00:16:15

So thats my problem. I always blamed it on the fact I don't like F1. :)
SCGT was fun in its day.

MadDAWG

by **Larr** » Sat, 22 Jan 2005 23:08:14

Does the full version of GTR feel the same as the Demo?

I know I sound like a broken record with this, but I can't help it. I
installed and ran the GTR Demo for about an hour last night.

Graphics are nice. Sounds are excellent. But...

It still feels like an ISI Engine based SIM to me, and for me at least
that's not good.

Like all the others, it feels like the car is floating 1/4" above the track
and the pivot point of the car is about a foot in front of the steering
wheel.

It's hard for me to explain but it just does not feel right to me.

I can't get ANY sense of grip out of it.

With the Papy stuff, I can sense the edge of grip, and adjust for the fact
I'm going too fast. With the ISI based games I never get that feeling and
just end up flying off the track all the time.

-Larry

> wrote something like:

>>I race N2003 on line and that is going south. What is next? I've never
>>raced
>>an EA Sports sim. Tell me something good is coming down the pike.

> GTR.

> If long exposure to Papy sims has given you chronic allergy to ISI
> engined sims, then I'd suggest the GTP mod for N2003 instead.
> --
> - Jussi Koukku -

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 23 Jan 2005 02:04:50

> Does the full version of GTR feel the same as the Demo?

> I know I sound like a broken record with this, but I can't help it. I
> installed and ran the GTR Demo for about an hour last night.

> Graphics are nice. Sounds are excellent. But...

> It still feels like an ISI Engine based SIM to me, and for me at least
> that's not good.

> Like all the others, it feels like the car is floating 1/4" above the
> track and the pivot point of the car is about a foot in front of the
> steering wheel.

> It's hard for me to explain but it just does not feel right to me.

> I can't get ANY sense of grip out of it.

> With the Papy stuff, I can sense the edge of grip, and adjust for the fact
> I'm going too fast. With the ISI based games I never get that feeling and
> just end up flying off the track all the time.

> -Larry

>> wrote something like:

>>>I race N2003 on line and that is going south. What is next? I've never
>>>raced
>>>an EA Sports sim. Tell me something good is coming down the pike.

>> GTR.

>> If long exposure to Papy sims has given you chronic allergy to ISI
>> engined sims, then I'd suggest the GTP mod for N2003 instead.
>> --
>> - Jussi Koukku -

Its not going to be NR2004, EVER. Maybe Papy has it wrong and sucked you
along with em? I sure dont get the feeling of floating though. If
anything I feel the GTR demo actually has a working suspension which
requires much more finesse to drive effectively. Like any REAL driver will
tell you "slow in fast out" is key and GTR models this well. Weve been
conditioned to brake un godly late in Papy sims and that model has been
wrong since N1.

Their are two demos Larry. The original leaked press demo then the official
demo. Be sure to get the official.

Mitch
--
Remove "nospam." to reply.
SuSE 9.2 Pro.

by **Tony Rickar** » Sun, 23 Jan 2005 04:54:01

> Its not going to be NR2004, EVER. Maybe Papy has it wrong and sucked you
> along with em? I sure dont get the feeling of floating though. If
> anything I feel the GTR demo actually has a working suspension which
> requires much more finesse to drive effectively. Like any REAL driver
will
> tell you "slow in fast out" is key and GTR models this well. Weve been
> conditioned to brake un godly late in Papy sims and that model has been
> wrong since N1.

You may be right Mitch but I am share the same view as Larry. Possibly it is
because I am conditioned to Papy sims although I have raced sims since 1990
and Papy sims have not ruled my hard drive throughout that time.

I have explained before I think it is more down to a controller thing and
how I relate to the controller and visuals to simulate the missing physical
impact.

I know the speeds do not equate to it but the "feel" I get from GTR, F1C
etc. is that car handles less well than my road car and certainly less so
than anything of the limited machinery I have driven on a track.

Driving a high performance machine the feeling should be of how well it
corners and then the discovery of how much faster you can go. GTR is the
opposite. A good road car feels sharp when turning in, GTR feels like a pig.
It just feels wrong, but that is not to say it feels wrong for anyone else.

Therefore I just don't believe there will be a definitive sim like we had in
the past when Indycar ousted F1GP and later when GPL came along and blew
everything away.

Comments such as GTR is the best sim period, or GTP takes the crown as #1
sim are simply opinions of groups. The engines have developed to a degree
that the "best" is the one that fools the brain best to create a sensation
of real driving. Fow which I am convinced there is a fudge factor over and
above simulation suspension etc.

Cheers
Tony

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 23 Jan 2005 06:44:41

> You may be right Mitch but I am share the same view as Larry. Possibly it
> is because I am conditioned to Papy sims although I have raced sims since
> 1990 and Papy sims have not ruled my hard drive throughout that time.

> I have explained before I think it is more down to a controller thing and
> how I relate to the controller and visuals to simulate the missing
> physical impact.

> I know the speeds do not equate to it but the "feel" I get from GTR, F1C
> etc. is that car handles less well than my road car and certainly less so
> than anything of the limited machinery I have driven on a track.

> Driving a high performance machine the feeling should be of how well it
> corners and then the discovery of how much faster you can go. GTR is the
> opposite. A good road car feels sharp when turning in, GTR feels like a
> pig. It just feels wrong, but that is not to say it feels wrong for anyone
> else.

> Therefore I just don't believe there will be a definitive sim like we had
> in the past when Indycar ousted F1GP and later when GPL came along and
> blew everything away.

> Comments such as GTR is the best sim period, or GTP takes the crown as #1
> sim are simply opinions of groups. The engines have developed to a degree
> that the "best" is the one that fools the brain best to create a sensation
> of real driving. Fow which I am convinced there is a fudge factor over and
> above simulation suspension etc.

> Cheers
> Tony

Im not arguing about this at all, keep that in mind :) Strictly a personal
preference based on a somewhat limited demo. I really think R-Factor might
have hit the nail on the head though. Again based on a early demo so we
can only hope things get better not worse :-)

At this point Ill be thrilled with ANY new racing sims. NR2003 feels very
dated to me and no longer holds my interest. Im d/l'ing Nascar Sim Racing
to give a whirl later. Fingers and toes crossed we get something decent.

Mitch
--
Remove "nospam." to reply.
SuSE 9.2 Pro.

by **alex martin** » Mon, 24 Jan 2005 01:08:13

Hey Larry; I felt the same, got a copy of GTR anyway, been messing with it
for over two months and I can only say - give it a chance. The 'feel' is not
papy, because the slip-angle is so extreme ... BUT - with time comes feel,
and once you get the feel, controlling the cars into fabulous power-slides
is not only possible, but also very very fun - just give it time (as in
first time you played GPL time) and it will reward you like GPL eventually
did.

> Does the full version of GTR feel the same as the Demo?

> I know I sound like a broken record with this, but I can't help it. I
> installed and ran the GTR Demo for about an hour last night.

> Graphics are nice. Sounds are excellent. But...

> It still feels like an ISI Engine based SIM to me, and for me at least
> that's not good.

> Like all the others, it feels like the car is floating 1/4" above the
> track and the pivot point of the car is about a foot in front of the
> steering wheel.

> It's hard for me to explain but it just does not feel right to me.

> I can't get ANY sense of grip out of it.

> With the Papy stuff, I can sense the edge of grip, and adjust for the fact
> I'm going too fast. With the ISI based games I never get that feeling and
> just end up flying off the track all the time.

> -Larry

>> wrote something like:

>>>I race N2003 on line and that is going south. What is next? I've never
>>>raced
>>>an EA Sports sim. Tell me something good is coming down the pike.

>> GTR.

>> If long exposure to Papy sims has given you chronic allergy to ISI
>> engined sims, then I'd suggest the GTP mod for N2003 instead.
>> --
>> - Jussi Koukku -

by **Marc Collin** » Thu, 27 Jan 2005 14:15:30

No argument desired, but just for info...I have played every Papy sim out
there and still love GPL. I find GTR (particularly the leaked demo) and
even the GT for F12002 mod vastly superior to any of the NASCAR Papy titles
for the factors you describe. Basically, it's the exact opposite of your
experience on my computers with my controller (MOMO black). In fact, the GT
mod was the only title since GPL that I really felt like the car was
responding exactly to my inputs and I could finesse extra hundredths of a
second out of it and actually know where I got them. NT2004 is better at
that than NR2003 (though the overall sim experience is inferior). Richard
Burns Rally is another title that falls into the realistic category for me.
LFS I bet will be in the same category with S2 (coming soon).

Marc

rec.autos.simulators

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?

N2003 is done, what is next?