rec.autos.simulators

Total Immersion Racing demo -- my impressions (TIR = SCGT2?)

Steve Smit

Total Immersion Racing demo -- my impressions (TIR = SCGT2?)

by Steve Smit » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 08:36:17

...and I should also say that I admire you for racing in a GPL league.  Now
*there's* a game!

In fact, I consider GPL the greatest "game" of my life.  I've spent more
time, money, and thought on GPL than I've spent on Fish, Monoply, Parchisi,
poker, 21, tap-dancing lessions, spin-the-bottle, soccer, track, real-world
racing (altho I believe I was the first to spend more than ten Large on
race-prepping a pushrod Porsche Speedster in the 60s), Flight Simulator
(altho I wrote a book abt. *that,* too), or hide-the-salami.  Well....

--Steve


> Hey, someone's gotta be out there rooting for the underdog!

> ;-)

> As for the source code, I believe that Razorworks has made their
> source code available for their helicopter sim, so there my yet be
> hope for TIR . . .

> </DREAMER MODE>

> -- JCB




> > I dunno, John; you and your dedication to lost causes.  I really, really
> > tried to love TIR (alledgedly the remnants of the Westies' WSC project),
and
> > even recommended to Alison Hine that she try it, but we both found it to
be
> > something less than zero.  It's console ancestry is all too
apparent...even
> > before you comb thru its architecture and find references to a "memory
card"
> > (could they at least have taken out the garbage before they ported it?).
> > Yes, it *looks* great (but not better than ISI products; in fact, to my
eye
> > it has the same hard-edged, grainy look as the F12x games), but the AI
is
> > clueless, and the gameplay is hopelessly arcade.  Without the source
code,
> > it's still a sow's ear.  But thanks for trying.



> > > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say
> > > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to
> > > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version,
> > > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable:

> > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to
> > > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC).

> > > 2) I've installed some "***" physics settings to make the grip
> > > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as
> > > well).

> > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire
> > > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which
> > > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT).

> > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI
> > > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine
> > > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's
> > > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no
> > > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI
> > > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars
> > > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively
> > > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're
> > > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be
> > > challenging and entertaining, at the very least.

> > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for
> > > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism
> > > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was
> > > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen
> > > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . .
> > > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR.

> > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more
> > > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher
> > > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more
> > > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to
> > > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same
> > > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1
> > > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing.

> > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I
> > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one
> > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that
> > > would be easy for everybody to use.

> > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been
> > > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented
> > > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary
> > > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other
> > > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that
> > > captures a lot of the "feel" and e***ment that I first experienced
> > > with SCGT and Viper Racing.

> > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial
> > > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just
> > > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in
> > > comparison to TIR.

> > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that
> > > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods
> > > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any
> > > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right,"
> > > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "***" set of
> > > tweaks. I know that an independent "***" physics mod is already
> > > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what
> > > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased
> > > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going
> > > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall
> > > perception of TIR's physics model.

> > > -- JCB

Marc Collin

Total Immersion Racing demo -- my impressions (TIR = SCGT2?)

by Marc Collin » Sat, 26 Apr 2003 11:44:23

It is only good for driving/hot lapping.  The AI are worse than useless, but
if you get rid of them, you can have a lot of fun tooling around the tracks.

Marc


> I dunno, John; you and your dedication to lost causes.  I really, really
> tried to love TIR (alledgedly the remnants of the Westies' WSC project),
and
> even recommended to Alison Hine that she try it, but we both found it to
be
> something less than zero.  It's console ancestry is all too
apparent...even
> before you comb thru its architecture and find references to a "memory
card"
> (could they at least have taken out the garbage before they ported it?).
> Yes, it *looks* great (but not better than ISI products; in fact, to my
eye
> it has the same hard-edged, grainy look as the F12x games), but the AI is
> clueless, and the gameplay is hopelessly arcade.  Without the source code,
> it's still a sow's ear.  But thanks for trying.



> > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say
> > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to
> > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version,
> > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable:

> > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to
> > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC).

> > 2) I've installed some "***" physics settings to make the grip
> > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as
> > well).

> > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire
> > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which
> > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT).

> > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI
> > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine
> > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's
> > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no
> > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI
> > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars
> > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively
> > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're
> > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be
> > challenging and entertaining, at the very least.

> > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for
> > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism
> > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was
> > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen
> > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . .
> > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR.

> > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more
> > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher
> > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more
> > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to
> > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same
> > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1
> > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing.

> > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I
> > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one
> > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that
> > would be easy for everybody to use.

> > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been
> > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented
> > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary
> > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other
> > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that
> > captures a lot of the "feel" and e***ment that I first experienced
> > with SCGT and Viper Racing.

> > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial
> > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just
> > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in
> > comparison to TIR.

> > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that
> > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods
> > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any
> > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right,"
> > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "***" set of
> > tweaks. I know that an independent "***" physics mod is already
> > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what
> > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased
> > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going
> > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall
> > perception of TIR's physics model.

> > -- JCB

jbod

Total Immersion Racing demo -- my impressions (TIR = SCGT2?)

by jbod » Sun, 27 Apr 2003 12:39:14

So once I get the AI sorted out, it should be a whole new ballgame, right?

Stay tuned . . .

;-)

-- JCB


> It is only good for driving/hot lapping.  The AI are worse than useless, but
> if you get rid of them, you can have a lot of fun tooling around the tracks.

> Marc



> > I dunno, John; you and your dedication to lost causes.  I really, really
> > tried to love TIR (alledgedly the remnants of the Westies' WSC project),
>  and
> > even recommended to Alison Hine that she try it, but we both found it to
>  be
> > something less than zero.  It's console ancestry is all too
>  apparent...even
> > before you comb thru its architecture and find references to a "memory
>  card"
> > (could they at least have taken out the garbage before they ported it?).
> > Yes, it *looks* great (but not better than ISI products; in fact, to my
>  eye
> > it has the same hard-edged, grainy look as the F12x games), but the AI is
> > clueless, and the gameplay is hopelessly arcade.  Without the source code,
> > it's still a sow's ear.  But thanks for trying.



> > > After playing around with the demo for a few nights, I have to say
> > > that TIR feels exactly like SCGT2 to me. The demo can be hacked to
> > > incorporate some of the tweaks that can be used with the full version,
> > > and so far, here's what I've done to make the demo more playable:

> > > 1) I've incorporated a fix for the "sticky" grass and dirt (we had to
> > > do this when SCGT first came out, IIRC).

> > > 2) I've installed some "***" physics settings to make the grip
> > > levels more realistic (we had to do this with SCGT originally, as
> > > well).

> > > 3) I have modified the volume levels and the sound files for the tire
> > > squeal to provide better feedback on wheelspin and grip levels (which
> > > was something we didn't have to do for SCGT).

> > > With these changes, the demo feels a LOT like SCGT2 would feel if ISI
> > > were to undertake such a project. Overall, the TIR physics engine
> > > feels a lot like an ISI product in general, and graphically it's
> > > superior to anything ISI has done so far (out of the box, with no
> > > third-party graphic mods, that is). The AI reminds me a lot of the AI
> > > in SCGT -- there isn't much "I" in the "AI" overall, but the AI cars
> > > do slap and bang in a competitive manner, they drive both defensively
> > > and aggressively, and they will bulldoze you out of the way if you're
> > > not careful -- overall, though, the AI seems like it can be
> > > challenging and entertaining, at the very least.

> > > The overall lack of a damage model means there are no consequences for
> > > being overly aggressive, which is a drawback from a realism
> > > perspective, but in this respect, TIR isn't much worse than SCGT was
> > > when it first arrived on the scene. SCGT at least provided us unseen
> > > damage, and later visible damage was made available . . .
> > > unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see damage in TIR.

> > > In general, though, the physics modeling in TIR seems to be much more
> > > sophisticated than SCGT -- the physics engine runs at a higher
> > > frequency than either TIR or Viper Racing, and it seems to model more
> > > aspects of the chassis geometry than either of these sims. If I had to
> > > rate it, I would say that while TIR may not be operating at the same
> > > level as F1 2002 physics-wise, it definitely seems to be up to the F1
> > > 2000 or F1 2001 level, and it far surpasses SCGT or Viper Racing.

> > > If there's any interest, I would be willing to make the mods that I
> > > have incorporated into the demo version available as an all-in-one
> > > package -- it would be simple to put together a self-installer that
> > > would be easy for everybody to use.

> > > FYI, the mods that I have incorporated are things that have been
> > > posted on the High Gear TIR forum by others -- I haven't reinvented
> > > the wheel, and I haven't come up with something new and revolutionary
> > > on my own . . . all I've done is pick and choose between other
> > > people's various tweaks, and I've come up with a combination that
> > > captures a lot of the "feel" and e***ment that I first experienced
> > > with SCGT and Viper Racing.

> > > TIR is definitely not GPL, but I think it is the best commercial
> > > sports car sim we've seen yet . . . Codemasters' Pro Race Driver just
> > > can't compare, physics-wise, and it's a huge disappointment in
> > > comparison to TIR.

> > > If anybody would be interested in a self-installer for the mods that
> > > I've incorporated into the demo, let me know -- note that these mods
> > > SHOULD also work with the full version as well, so if there is any
> > > interest, and if we can arrive at a consensus for what feels "right,"
> > > we may be able to establish some sort of a standard "***" set of
> > > tweaks. I know that an independent "***" physics mod is already
> > > available from the BHMS site, but the big difference between what
> > > currently exists and what I have done is that I have also increased
> > > the tire sounds, which REALLY helps you to understand what is going
> > > on, physics-wise, and THAT has made a big difference in my overall
> > > perception of TIR's physics model.

> > > -- JCB


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