rec.autos.simulators

Forgive my ignorance, I have never used a car simulator (PC or real)
and r.a.s has no FAQ ...

Are there PC simulators out there that actually make you a better
driver?  I'm thinking about reflex-training for slippery surfaces,
kids jumping out from nowhere, track/road messed up with inhomogeneous
snow, etc.  What are your opinions?

If yes, can you give me some references?

Or, for that matter, a similar cut has been made, differentiating
games from simulators.

If a PC game represents some facet of driving, then I'd be tempted to
say that it was a driving simulator. This includes Hard Driving,
Stunts, and even Pole Position and Spy Hunter, which are clearly
games.

I'd like to hear other people's notions on what a "real" driving
simulation is; does the game have to model some certain favorite facet
of the driving experience, or is it more subjective; "F1GP *FEELS*
more like driving a car, than Stunts, therefore F1GP is a simulation,
and stunts is a game."

-Dave LeCompte

--
These opinions are my own, and do not necessarily reflect
those of my family, my company, my race, or my species.

: The only simulator I would consider worthwhile for this purpose is
: Atari's Race Drivin or Hard Drivin.  These two arcade games are the
: only ones in my experience which provide mechanical feedback.
In the arcade game class I know that Sega Virtual Racing also has feedback on
the steering.

All serious research based simulation facilities that I know of have some sort
of feedback onto the steering wheel. It is impossible to drive correctly
without it, it is like driving on a skid pan or ice at normal driving speeds -
you do not stay on the road for very long. Typically this is provided by some
form of servo motor controlled by your simulation. In our case it is a motor
capable of proving a peak torque of 65Nm and accelerating to 1500rpm in about
a under a second (something that we don't really want it to do in our
application !). This allows us to simulate the high friction between the tyre
and road when the car is stopped or tavelling a parking speeds and the castor
effect (self centering) when cornering or lane changing. We can of course also
simulate the wheel going 'light' when the car begins to oversteer and starts
to enter a skid.

--
Stephen Gallimore|University of Leeds Driving Simulator|Tel: (+44) 532 335730

Hmm... It would need *** stops(and pressure switches) at the end of it's
travel so it won't tear itself apart if you let go , and it will need its own
power supply, since I don't think most serial ports can provide the juice
needed. The maximum torque should be changeable, too, to allow for children,
lightweight tables, and fatigue (since it will be so amazing people will play
until their arms fall off :)  It might need special cooling considerations
too, since continuous use will generate heat that needs to be sinked off, and
eventually may require auto-shutdown.

It's just crazy enough to make a viable product..

what do you think?

--
"I have feelings too, I just choose to  | Paul Miranda  likes cheese

-- Ms. Musso on "Parker Lewis" (FOX TV) | -- THIS SPACE FOR RENT --

The only simulator I would consider worthwhile for this purpose is
Atari's Race Drivin or Hard Drivin.  These two arcade games are the
only ones in my experience which provide mechanical feedback.

I know, I watched some little kid try to play it, and after I showed him
the clutch, brake, gas, shifter, and turnkey, he left, complaining that
the wheel is too hard to turn!  I personally cannor play the game for
more than three hours before my calves hurt from the clutch and brake
pedals.

I personally love the way the steering wheel will jitter when offroad,
or doing long burnouts in the automatic with the brake on. :-)

- Peter (who is waiting for a version with a "motion machine" under it
         for those max-g corners.)
--
Picard & Riker in '96: "Make it so" for the next generation!

performing controlled core dump...
performing controlled core dump...