rec.autos.simulators

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

Jeroen van Engelenhove

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Jeroen van Engelenhove » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Just a little remark (on what is still a great game): much is said (here and
there) about the great reflections on the car: 'You can really see the
surroundings on it! Wow! Awesome! How did they do that? Very realistic!'
Well, look again. In the demo you can clearly see the reflection is nothing
else than a single rotating texture projected on the car. When you pass the
rocks or when you drive through the tunnel, you still see the same trees on
the car! Ha! Realistic! Gimme a break! It's a cheap trick! It looks nice
though, and it doens't make the game worse. Just wondered if anybody else
noticed this already. BTW I always use the bumper (or in-car) view, so...

Jeroen van Engelenjoven

Johan Foedere

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Johan Foedere » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Yup, I noticed this pretty soon. Not immedialtly, since I also use the
bumper cam, but when I first switched to the heli cam I did notice it.
It is a bit weird, but it still looks cool. Now we have something to
look forward to in the NFS4!?

// Johan


> Just a little remark (on what is still a great game): much is said (here and
> there) about the great reflections on the car: 'You can really see the
> surroundings on it! Wow! Awesome! How did they do that? Very realistic!'
> Well, look again. In the demo you can clearly see the reflection is nothing
> else than a single rotating texture projected on the car. When you pass the
> rocks or when you drive through the tunnel, you still see the same trees on
> the car! Ha! Realistic! Gimme a break! It's a cheap trick! It looks nice
> though, and it doens't make the game worse. Just wondered if anybody else
> noticed this already. BTW I always use the bumper (or in-car) view, so...

> Jeroen van Engelenjoven

Shrik

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Shrik » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00


> Yup, I noticed this pretty soon. Not immedialtly, since I also use the
> bumper cam, but when I first switched to the heli cam I did notice it.
> It is a bit weird, but it still looks cool. Now we have something to
> look forward to in the NFS4!?

> // Johan


> > Just a little remark (on what is still a great game): much is said (here and
> > there) about the great reflections on the car: 'You can really see the
> > surroundings on it! Wow! Awesome! How did they do that? Very realistic!'
> > Well, look again. In the demo you can clearly see the reflection is nothing
> > else than a single rotating texture projected on the car. When you pass the
> > rocks or when you drive through the tunnel, you still see the same trees on
> > the car! Ha! Realistic! Gimme a break! It's a cheap trick! It looks nice
> > though, and it doens't make the game worse. Just wondered if anybody else
> > noticed this already. BTW I always use the bumper (or in-car) view, so...

> > Jeroen van Engelenjoven

Well, it's the nature of environment mapping. To do true reflections
would require a ray-tracing engine, which is a bit beyond the scope of
current accelerators (and not worth the hassle, if you ask me. It's a
lot more difficult to make a ray-traced scene look good than a
ray-casted one).

--
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'the One Horseman and Three Pedestrians of the Apocralypse.'
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Chris Caroll

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Chris Caroll » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00


> Well, it's the nature of environment mapping. To do true reflections
> would require a ray-tracing engine, which is a bit beyond the scope of
> current accelerators (and not worth the hassle, if you ask me. It's a
> lot more difficult to make a ray-traced scene look good than a
> ray-casted one).

There's nothing that prevents them from updating the
bitmap that they use for environment mapping on the fly.

It would obviously be pretty expensive, computationally,
but the next step definitely isn't full-blown raytracing.

-Chris
-----------------
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and in no way reflect those
of my employer.

Worker Workin

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Worker Workin » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00



> > Well, it's the nature of environment mapping. To do true reflections
> > would require a ray-tracing engine, which is a bit beyond the scope of
> > current accelerators (and not worth the hassle, if you ask me. It's a
> > lot more difficult to make a ray-traced scene look good than a
> > ray-casted one).

> There's nothing that prevents them from updating the
> bitmap that they use for environment mapping on the fly.

> It would obviously be pretty expensive, computationally,
> but the next step definitely isn't full-blown raytracing.

Hell, didn't Screamer 2 map a false-reflection onto the roof of the
car?  This has been around a while, hasn't it?
Shrik

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Shrik » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00



> > Well, it's the nature of environment mapping. To do true reflections
> > would require a ray-tracing engine, which is a bit beyond the scope of
> > current accelerators (and not worth the hassle, if you ask me. It's a
> > lot more difficult to make a ray-traced scene look good than a
> > ray-casted one).

> There's nothing that prevents them from updating the
> bitmap that they use for environment mapping on the fly.

> It would obviously be pretty expensive, computationally,
> but the next step definitely isn't full-blown raytracing.

Hmmm... I guess they could grab the framebuffer and use that for the
environment mapping, although you could probably see the car reflected
on itself... Maybe they could have a loop of different environment maps
for different areas, and change them at transition points...

I guess you're right, and they can still cheat their way for a bit
longer before going to full-blown raytracing. Still, the cars in NFSIII
are *much* too shiny. :)

--
______                              .~.
Shrike                              /V\   L   I   N   U   X
______                             // \\ >Phear the Penguin<
                                  /(   )\
                                   ^^-^^
'It's going to look pretty good, then, isn't it,' said War, testily,
'the One Horseman and Three Pedestrians of the Apocralypse.'
                                        -Terry Pratchett, "Sourcery"

Chris J. Randolp

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Chris J. Randolp » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00

    How long are you seriously going to be impressed by this effect,
though?  Wow, there's the cycling bit-map of the tree and the rock again.
;)
    Hmmm, I first noticed this fake environment mapping effect in Screamer2
I think.  Could be wrong.

-Chris (damn you, you have my signature)  ;)



> > Well, it's the nature of environment mapping. To do true reflections
> > would require a ray-tracing engine, which is a bit beyond the scope of
> > current accelerators (and not worth the hassle, if you ask me. It's a
> > lot more difficult to make a ray-traced scene look good than a
> > ray-casted one).

> There's nothing that prevents them from updating the
> bitmap that they use for environment mapping on the fly.

> It would obviously be pretty expensive, computationally,
> but the next step definitely isn't full-blown raytracing.

> -Chris
> -----------------
> All opinions expressed herein are my own, and in no way reflect those
> of my employer.

Robin Sequir

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Robin Sequir » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Yep, but I'm not concentrating on t he car, so...

--
"I don't have low self-esteem, I have low esteem for everyone else."
-Daria
"It says 'Spinach' on the outside, but we all know it's whoop-ass!"
-Me, on Popeye
http://come.to/amgd - The alt.music.green-day Page


snip

Martin Urs

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Martin Urs » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00

: Hmmm... I guess they could grab the framebuffer and use that for the
: environment mapping, although you could probably see the car reflected
: on itself... Maybe they could have a loop of different environment maps
: for different areas, and change them at transition points...

        Sega Rally 2 does this effect, and I think it looks pretty good!

: I guess you're right, and they can still cheat their way for a bit
: longer before going to full-blown raytracing. Still, the cars in NFSIII
: are *much* too shiny. :)

        You can't blame them for going for maximum glitz, as that's what
seems to attract the kiddies (ooh, shiny).  Personally, I'd like to drive
a beat-up, rusty, primer and auto-filler-covered Chevy Corsica with "WASH
ME" written on the dusty backglass!  Downloadable cars, maybe?

Martin
Nigel Mansell RIP!

        No, I do not drive a Corsica in real life!

Galle

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Galle » Fri, 18 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Uh, the Playstation version DOES reflect the environment on the car's
surface.  For instance, the lights of a tunnel, or the trees.

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Chris Caroll

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Chris Caroll » Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:00:00


>     How long are you seriously going to be impressed by this effect,
> though?  Wow, there's the cycling bit-map of the tree and the rock again.
> ;)
>     Hmmm, I first noticed this fake environment mapping effect in Screamer2
> I think.  Could be wrong.

They don't necessarily have to cycle through static bitmaps
either.  They could render the scene onto the interior of
a sphere from the point of view of the car, and then use
that as the environment map.

I mean, they *have* a software renderer, so it's definitely
within their power to do, and I'm sure it could be a pretty
low-resolution image and still look pretty good.

I'm not saying they *should* have done this; I know nothing
about how they're doing their rendering or what kind of
performance hit it implies, but it's definitely something
that could be done, and would be pretty damn cool, IMO.

And while I'm posting...I'm not so sure that the cars are
too shiny.  Watch some real cars, and even those without
a fresh coat of wax have a *lot* of reflection.  But I
agree that it doesn't look quite right.  Maybe they
don't vary the amount of reflection or something, so it
comes off too uniform...tough to pin down what's not right
about it, though.

-Chris (mwhahaha, it's mine! mine I tell you!)
-----------------
All opinions expressed herein are my own, and in no way reflect those
of my employer.

Johan Foedere

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Johan Foedere » Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:00:00

Perhaps this is their way of giving you the idea that you just bought
the car!

The "Sorry officer, this is my first ride in my brand new car and I just
HAD to try it!" effect. And that's why the officer says (After having
chased you for 5km with 4 cop cars, of which 3 crashed) I'm giving you a
warning, just this time! :-)

Would they really say that? I don't think so!

// Johan.

Ronald Stoeh

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Ronald Stoeh » Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:00:00


>     How long are you seriously going to be impressed by this effect,
> though?  Wow, there's the cycling bit-map of the tree and the rock again.
> ;)

Then I'm lucky, that I don't like flying behind the car I drive. From
the
***pit you can't see this... ;^)

l8er
ronny

--
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kiddo?"

          |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
        |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
       '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!

Johan Foedere

Need for Speed III: realistic reflections...??? Hahaha!

by Johan Foedere » Sat, 19 Sep 1998 04:00:00

So you're actually driving without seeing any of the other cars? I bet
you drive some good times! :-)

// Johan



> >     How long are you seriously going to be impressed by this effect,
> > though?  Wow, there's the cycling bit-map of the tree and the rock again.
> > ;)

> Then I'm lucky, that I don't like flying behind the car I drive. From
> the
>***pit you can't see this... ;^)

> l8er
> ronny

> --
> Toys'R'Us '99: "So, would you like a hand gun with that action figure,
> kiddo?"

>           |\      _,,,---,,_        I want to die like my Grandfather,
>    ZZZzz /,`.-'`'    -.  ;-;;,_              in his sleep.
>         |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'     Not like the people in his car,
>        '---''(_/--'  `-'\_)            screaming their heads off!


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