rec.autos.simulators

 :>>
 :> We did go
 :>> Gold the Monday before Thanksgiving, so I would guess the product will be
 :>> on the shelves sometime next week (or the week after).  Usually takes
 :>> about two weeks to produce.
 :>>
 :>> Adam
 :>> Papyrus
 :>
 :>Adam,
 :>
 :> ...snip...
 :>
 :>What most of us are interested in is, when to expect the mail order
 :>copies we bought from Sierra on the same day we received the offer in
 :>the mail.  If I see the program at Babbages, Egghead, CompUSA, or Joe's
 :>Software, before the "upgrade" mail orders are filled, I have bought my
 :>last Sierra product!  We all love Papy, but Sierra has that
 :>reputation.....

Forgive me if this isn't an obvious question, but if you knew Sierra had this
reputation, why did you mail order it?

First, you people slam the Papy folks for not saying anything, and then you
slam them for saying something.  Make up your ***in minds and stop whining
ABOUT A GODDAMN GAME!  Sierra/Papy knows how bad everybody wants this game,
and they are well aware of the dollars that aren't flowing into their pockets
dues to the delays.  They're probably leaning on Papy pretty damned hard to
finish the sucker, and speaking as a programmer, I know their development
staff doesn't need any more pressure than they're already getting.

So lighten the *** up and go play ICR2 until NCR2 is out.

To the Papy staff - just keep doing what you're doing and don't let these
idots rush you into a buggy release.  Also, I think you can safely ignore
those with no experience in lead times where ads are concerned.  I'll buy NCR2
when it comes out, and I'm sure plenty of other folks will, too.

/===================================================\
| John Simmons (Redneck Techno-Biker)               |

| http://www.racesimcentral.net/; |
\===================================================/

<<Wow, it's really amazing how many times you have to come up here and
explain things over and over again.  NASCAR 2 is not out yet.  We did go
Gold the Monday before Thanksgiving, so I would guess the product will be
on the shelves sometime next week (or the week after).  Usually takes
about two weeks to produce.

Adam
Papyrus>>

Thanks for the official update. We will look for it around mid-month. Now
we don't have to read posts like "My brothers cousin's mailman's autistic
nephew that lives in Kalamazoo saw Elvis buying it at Target with a coupon
for $3.99" Ugh

Roger,

This is another one of those posts that is due to not understanding the way
the software industry works...

So, let me throw some explanation out, so that we might clear up some of
the misunderstandings that comtinue to run rampant here.

First, I'd like to say to Adam, a huge thank you for giving us the
information that they have finished the product and that it went to
production (that's what going gold means) last Monday. By no means is this
fueling the rumor mill. Adam gave us REAL information, the product has
started manufacturing.

As for concrete dates on when any store or person will get the products,
well that is subject to so many factors it's not funny.

First, for all of those people who ordered directly from Sierra, that order
is processed just like at any other software RESELLER. the manufacturing
plant sends a bunch of copies to the Sierra direct sales department, who
then packages them, slaps labels on them, and ships them out. Thus, the
amount of time from the when the product goes into production to when you
get your direct order copy is contingent on a bunch of things. How far down
the list is your name? How many copies is the direct sales department able
to process per day? and so on. So some people high up on the list might get
their copy with 2 weeks, others might take 3 or so.

Second, for the stores. Well, their orders go through distibutors, such as
Ingram Micro (the largest distributor out their) or are sometime shipped
directly from the manufacturer. Their orders are for HUGE numbers of
copies, so a whole pallet of boxes can just be shipped to them, meaning
that there is no need for people to process individual orders, and thus the
stores get their copies in a more efficient manner. But their orders are
affected by shipping schedules, going to store warehouses before individual
stores, etc. So, it is very possible that some stores get copies before
other stores and even before some of the people that direct ordered the
product.

It is because of the fact that the process by which stores get copies of
products is more efficient (and by the way less expensive for the software
manufacturer) that I NEVER order from the manufacturer, as I have not known
a case where I could get the product faster that way when it first shipped.

Adam gave us the best information he could, which is that the product is
definitely released, and that basically, anyone that says after today that
they have it, damn well might. For that we should again give him a big
thank you, and quit all the whining and griping that gives a lot of end
users a bad name in the eyes of the people that have the task of trying to
create great software and support it after the fact. As for criticizing the
rumor mongers, I don't remember ever truly seeing Adam do that, all I've
seen him do is say "it's not done yet, and hang on, we'll get it done soon
as we can".

I for one have in some cases been amused by some of the posts regarding it
being out there, but most of the time have been distressed by the ignorance
shown in a lot of these posts. A wise person once said, "if you can't say
something nice, don't say anything at all". Well, in this case I think it's
appropriate. We need to thank Adam and all the Papyrus guys that worked so
hard to get the new version out, and also remember that Sierra has given
them more resources (financially, etc.) to work with.

Richard Roddy

The author's opinion is completely independent of, and not representative
of the views of the Microsoft Corporation. Microsoft cannot be held
responsible for the independent views of the author.

I think it is important for this newsgroup to get these things out in
the open and that is basically all I intended to do.  There is precious
little information exchanged in this particular group compared to some I
have seen (c'serve fight sim forum for instance).  

I think I also expressed my appreciation for Adams efforts, but because
of my unfamiliarity with the official jargon I was unable to derive much
new info from his post.  Of course my only dismay where Sierra is
concerned is that small firms like Papyrus, and thousands of others,
whom many of us work for end up in the ownership of the "Sierras" of the
world.  Yes it is a fact of life in business today, but it is still sad
to see a small company slowly lose its identity in exchange for
marketing enhancements, legal security, operating funds, etc.

Once again Richard, thanks for the info.  

ra

Hi Roger,
     One thing I learned along time ago when posting information on-line,
is that you really have to be vague.  I only know when the game started to
be manufactured.  I really don't know when it will be out, only that it
takes about 2 weeks for it to get on the shelves once it goes "Gold" (into
manufacturing).  This time can be shortend if certain things are rushed.
The reason I don't like putting specific dates is that if one little thing
goes wrong, say, it's supposed to be done on x date and it doesn't get
done till x+y, then you get flamed left and right because you "lied" to
everyone.  Remember the N2 demo and how much grief occured because of
that.  So, I would be fine with giving more specific dates (when I know
them) as long as you guys don't flame the hell out of me, Sierra, etc if
those dates are missed.

Adam
Papyrus

Adam,

It's here and I would personally like to THANK YOU for one outstanding racing
simulation!  I've had NASCAR-1 since the day it hit the store shelves and
played it every day since.  I wondered how can they possibly make it better,
but you guys did.  Man what a job you all did.  All I can say again is
THANKS, it's really, really great!

Sal V.