rec.autos.simulators

by **Karl Zose** » Mon, 29 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Just tried the demo.
The car-physics are total crap.
Graphics are poor too.

Don't believe anyone who says its a simulator.
(it's a pitty because BTCC racing is great)

by **DPHI** » Tue, 30 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Yeah, I don't think anyone really considers TOCA 2 to be a true sim, whatever
that is<g>, but it is a fun diversion when you just want to rub door handles
with someone.

-don

by **Nathan Wo** » Tue, 30 Mar 1999 04:00:00

On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:54:52 +0200, "Karl Zosel"

>Just tried the demo.
>The car-physics are total crap.

They are a bit tricky at first, but no worse than the original (I find
them a bit better).

In what way are they poor? They are a huge step up from the graphics
in TOCA1. And when you run it at 1024x768 they look very nice indeed.

I dont think anyone says it's a sim.
--
Nathan Wong http://www.nectar.com.au/~alfacors
Alfa Romeo - Super Touring - Club Cars

http://fullspeed.to/astc
Australian Super Touring Championship
News and Information

by **Chnl** » Tue, 30 Mar 1999 04:00:00

Yes, I would be interested to know what you thought of the first TOCA. I for
one loved it, and felt it captured "rough and tumble" better than any other
game out there. If you didn't like the first one, I'd wager you won't like it's
sequal.

by **Richard G Cleg** » Tue, 30 Mar 1999 04:00:00

: Yes, I would be interested to know what you thought of the first TOCA. I for
: one loved it, and felt it captured "rough and tumble" better than any other
: game out there. If you didn't like the first one, I'd wager you won't like it's
: sequal.

I have to say, I'm a devotee of the Codemasters games. Sure, they're
not the serious sims that games like GPL are (although, I think that
graphically, if anything, TOCA 2 is ahead of GPL - I can never find
braking points in GPL because the tracks are so featureless). However,
I think that TOCA really captures well how a TOCA race seems to be
(to a spectator anyway). Really pretty exciting stuff, bashing doors,
bits falling off the car and drivers "leaning" on each other. A
fussy GPL style sim would not at all be faithful to the way that
touring cars are raced (to a spectator at least).

Richard (looking forward to seeing the BTCC season opener in
Donnington next Monday)

--
Richard G. Clegg Only the mind is waving
Dept. of Mathematics (Network Control group) Uni. of York.

www: http://manor.york.ac.uk/top.html

by **GypsyMet** » Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:00:00

That's an interesting angle, actually - thinking of "simulating" a racing style
based on what it seems like when watching, rather than modeling each and every
subtle nuance to the point of tedium. I've never gotten too into GPL or any of
the other Papyrus sims, because while I feel they probably are giving me
dynamics as close to the real thing as possible, I think they forget that I'm
not really there. I'm sitting at home in front of my computer, unable to feel
the G's or the bumps or any of the movements of my car - and, for my tastes,
they do not make enough concessions to compensate for that. That's why I loved
TOCA 1 - it certainly wasn't as painstakingly realistic as N2 or GPL, but it
was fun, and definitely had more going on under the hood than an arcade racer.

by **d..** » Wed, 31 Mar 1999 04:00:00

as someone who buys nearly all the 'sim' style racing games i have to
say i really enjoyed playing TOCA ,especially over modem connection
with a friend. it may not be as realistic as GPL,but there is
definitely a need for games that fall between the console/arcade style
and the full on sim's. they give us a chance to enjoy racing without
messing around with setups too much and have a greater 'fun' factor.
as for the graphics side,i'm running a p2 350 ,with 2 v2's sli.,and
the demo of TOCA 2 looks great and hums along nicely with full
detail,i personally can't wait to get my hands on the full release.

DEO

On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:54:52 +0200, "Karl Zosel"

>Just tried the demo.
>The car-physics are total crap.
>Graphics are poor too.

>Don't believe anyone who says its a simulator.
>(it's a pitty because BTCC racing is great)

by **Anssi Lehtin** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

> I feel that way sometime in other genres too, it's the fun factor. Look
> at Tiger Woods vs. MS Golf. The difficulty for developers is getting the
> balance just right. I still want to feel like I'm driving a car but the
> only RL experience I have to compare it with is twin engine karting and
> some very fast road cars.

> Sims like GPL give me feel in abundance but it's different to what I
> know from RL and the knife edge you have to drive on to be fast is
> challenging but so frustrating sometimes. Periods of relief with TOCA,
> CMR and hopefully TOCA2 are very welcome.

> However, they are all flawed to some extent. I still await the game/sim
> that acurately captures my RL experiences and translates this
> successfully via the limited interface. Till then I'll carry on enjoying
> what we have.

You tried Gran Turismo for the PSX? To me, the feel is just right. I play
GPL because of the multiplayer capability and so I can use a decent wheel.
GT has it's flaws though. There's no damage modeling, which kinda changes
the way you race (it's not that hard to stay on the road, but you almost
always bump the competitors in a big way (if they ever get anywhere near
you, they are pretty crappy or choose the wrong cars).

--
Anssi Lehtinen

by **GypsyMet** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

The biggest thing that bugged me about Gran Turismo was that they billed
themselves as "The Real Driving Simulator", and yet had a button which could
best be described as a "Powerslide" button. I'm not trying to take away from
the game, however - the gameplay (buying cars, upgrades, winning money) was
very good for the most part. And the feel of the cars was good - but I hardly
think it was even close to accurate. I believe the Playstation itself is only
capable of integer math, and therefore would have great difficulty simulating
actual car physics. (As opposed to the Dreamcast and Playstation 2, which use
floating point math, and should give us more realism.) And I agree about damage
- it was definitely missed in that game - though I felt even the sensation of
colliding with another car felt phoney.

by **Zonk** » Thu, 01 Apr 1999 04:00:00

>The biggest thing that bugged me about Gran Turismo was that they billed
>themselves as "The Real Driving Simulator", and yet had a button which could
>best be described as a "Powerslide" button. I'm not trying to take away from
>the game, however - the gameplay (buying cars, upgrades, winning money) was
>very good for the most part. And the feel of the cars was good - but I hardly
>think it was even close to accurate. I believe the Playstation itself is only
>capable of integer math, and therefore would have great difficulty simulating
>actual car physics. (As opposed to the Dreamcast and Playstation 2, which use
>floating point math, and should give us more realism.) And I agree about damage
>- it was definitely missed in that game - though I felt even the sensation of
>colliding with another car felt phoney.

I think the worst problem has to be the lack of customisation of race length,
some terrible AI, and as you say, lack of damage. Or even collision physics,
for that matter.

Z.

Please remove NOSPAM from my email address when replying.

by **J & S Campbel** » Fri, 02 Apr 1999 04:00:00

U may be able to bash bits off of your car in TOCA but does it affect
handling??????

> > I feel that way sometime in other genres too, it's the fun factor. Look
> > at Tiger Woods vs. MS Golf. The difficulty for developers is getting the
> > balance just right. I still want to feel like I'm driving a car but the
> > only RL experience I have to compare it with is twin engine karting and
> > some very fast road cars.

> > Sims like GPL give me feel in abundance but it's different to what I
> > know from RL and the knife edge you have to drive on to be fast is
> > challenging but so frustrating sometimes. Periods of relief with TOCA,
> > CMR and hopefully TOCA2 are very welcome.

> > However, they are all flawed to some extent. I still await the game/sim
> > that acurately captures my RL experiences and translates this
> > successfully via the limited interface. Till then I'll carry on enjoying
> > what we have.

> You tried Gran Turismo for the PSX? To me, the feel is just right. I play
> GPL because of the multiplayer capability and so I can use a decent wheel.
> GT has it's flaws though. There's no damage modeling, which kinda changes
> the way you race (it's not that hard to stay on the road, but you almost
> always bump the competitors in a big way (if they ever get anywhere near
> you, they are pretty crappy or choose the wrong cars).

> --
> Anssi Lehtinen

by **Tinke** » Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:00:00

I agree with DEO & others in this thread.
GPL maybe a front runner as far as the physics model goes, but for better
than Arcade style racing without having to become a rocket scientist, even
Toca 1 is great. The Demo runs just fine and like the others I can't wait
for it to hit the retail shelfs downunder.

If nothing else Toca has given me many many hours great one on one racing
over modem. GPL has given us many many hours of wasted time trying to get
and stay connected.

Tinker

by **Paul Jone** » Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:00:00

Up to 20% performance loss.
Cheers,
Paul

by **Paul Jone** » Mon, 05 Apr 1999 05:00:00

> Just tried the demo.
> The car-physics are total crap.

Of course, the physics are flawed from a "true simulation" perspective,
GPL, for example is far more realistic than TOCA2. Compared to Grand
Touring Car, Sega Touring Car, Need For Speed or Johnny Herbert they are
very realistic. TOCA2 lies somewhere in between a simulation and an
arcade, but that's not the angle you should be approaching it anyway.
TOCA2 is semi-realistic fun with close hard racing. It can be a nice
breather from the rigours of GPL.

You must have a pretty low spec graphics combo or a different perception
of what makes up good graphics than I do.

I don't think anyone does - as stated, the consensus on this n.g. would
be that it lies somewhere between arcade and sim.

Here we agree,
Cheers,
Paul

by **gdf1** » Sat, 17 Apr 1999 04:00:00

On Sun, 28 Mar 1999 14:54:52 +0200, "Karl Zosel"

>Just tried the demo.
>The car-physics are total crap.
>Graphics are poor too.

>Don't believe anyone who says its a simulator.
>(it's a pitty because BTCC racing is great)

I doubt that TOCA Touring Cars 2 was ever supposed to be, or pretend
to be, a simulator. However, I certainly don't agree with you about it
being bad. The car physics are a great improvement over the original -
you CAN actually take a corner and not spin.

I've played the retail version on the Playstation, which was fairly
good, but I've only played the demo on the PC. Unless you have played
it on both formats you can not understand just how much of an
improvement TOCA 2 is.

It's very good. Very good indeed.

rec.autos.simulators

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???

TOCA 2 ---> are you serious???