rec.autos.simulators

I used to agree with the Crammond philsophy, now I don't anymore. My eyes
were opened by GPL and (only recently) MGPRS2.

Maybe simracers have evolved while Crammond hasn't?

Jan.
=---

If what you state is indeed Geoff's philosophy then I'm all for it.  After
all, we mustn't lose sight of the fact that we are doing nothing more than
playing a game and games are meant to be FUN!

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

Here we go again...   History repeats itself, and on usenet it is
super-accelerated history  :-)

I think we have to get rid of some of the more "absurd" levels of
attention to "realism". Especially when it comes to stubbornly
simulating some of the more annoying aspects.

As you say, the reality of racing sims is more and more becoming a
reality on its own. Let us then take this *CHANCE* to do what the
real-world counterparts would do if they actually COULD. That is,
eliminating factors that falsify the competition. Such as: luck,
unforseeable circumstances, money being a too important factor,
regulations that turn out wrong, politics etc..etc.. That way we only
keep those things that add to the pure racing experience.

Isn't that what we are all longing for?

IMO we would be stupid to miss this chance. Simracing technologically
gives us the opportunity to create the ideal,fair and exciting racing
experience. Let's take it! We aren't hampered by real-world
obstructions like money, politics, chance and history.

I imagine a time when simracers will wonder why their earliest
ancestors were unable to break loose from imperfect reality and
refused to exploit the possibilities of the new technology.

JoH

Isn't money, politics, chance and history the reason why we don't race
ICR3/CART racing 2 based on the GPL engine by Papyrus right now ?

:)

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying

:-)

I say: "power the racers!" Instead of "power to board xxx"

;-)

JoH

Beware: casual gamer opinion.
The problem with the driving helps, is that if I play with these, I feel
like a wimp! And don't have so much fun.
When I play with the *full realism* options in the game (even if they are
not very realistic), I feel a little more like Mika Hakkinen (even if Gaston
Mazzacane would be closer to truth... <g>). But if the game is too difficult
to drive then, I won't have so much fun either. It's all a matter of balance
and _driveability_.
Just my *deux centimes* (two cents in France)
Cyrille

On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 23:28:41 GMT, "Jan Verschueren"

Remember: "evolution" does not necessarilly imply "progress". We're
talking about random mutations here which do not need advantages to
procreate, just the absense of disadvantages.

The most *** of *** simpopulation doesn't have a chance to
compete with the normal *** simpopulation, hehehehe.. At least as
long as the environment doesn't change too much (= as long as the
typical sim-environment doesn't shift towards GPL-style ultrarealism)

;-)

JoH

Not necessarily, Jan.  You of all people should appreciate that one man's
meat is another man's poison. Because you don't like his work doesn't mean
that others shouldn't and vice versa.

--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

Oh, give us a break, Francois!  Are you really trying to tell me that you
don't consider a computer game to be a "game"? What's the problem....can't
face the fact that those you know might think you're a bit of a ***er for
playing computer games at your age? Don't worry about it, mate.
(And if Max Mosely says that F1 drivers aren't meant to be out there having
fun then I guess motor-racing isn't meant to be fun at all.)
--
Regards,
Bruce Kennewell,
Canberra, Australia.
---------------------------

On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:16:36 +1000, "Bruce Kennewell"

They are meant to be out there to make money for Tobacco companies.
Didn't you know that yet, Bruce. At your age?  :-)

At least we have sims that are smart enough to strip off any
"unwanted" features of real racing.

JoH

Agreed, I just hoped Geoff would again break new ground and move
simulation/realism up a notch above GPL with GP3 while maintaining his sims
legendary playability and accessibility. I'd at least expected him to do
proper flags /stop and go penalties and the ability to drive into the pits
yourself.

Seems to me like he didn't even listen to the criticisms leveled at GP2 and
just implemented what _he_ would have liked to have implemented with GP2 in
the first place (the weather). I'm sure some will call that vision, I call
it pigheadedness/laziness.

Jan.
=---

I've yet to see a sim that made you fullfill sponsorship duties and work out
for 4 hours a day. For my money even the most realistic sims focus on the
fun part of the job.

I cannot fathom why simracing developers would want to make virtual racing
"better than the real thing"(tm), as the fun about racing is not the racing
(I don't think Jaques Villeneuve enjoyed his dices with Baricello, Hakkinen
and Coulthard at all), it's about driving these fantastically powerfull and
fast cars at the limit. Still *all* developers fudge their sims to keep the
racing closer and more "exciting".

Jan.
=---
PS.: Note to West brothers: don't do it guys, please, while you still can.
Just keep it fair and square. My hopes are riding on you!!

It depends if you consider real racing a "game" also.  If so, then upon your
semantics I'll have to agree.

No, in fact most of them find it amusing (in the correct way) that I spend
time on that.  They consider it a natural from knowing my past experience
and my current love for the sport.

Those guys are having fun in real life.  It's non-sense to think they aren't
having fun racing in F1.  It's their job, and their job is fun.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- May the Downforce be with you...
-- http://www.racesimcentral.net/
-- People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world.

We still haven't seen or tried the full game yet. But really, it's impossible to
please everyone. Even if the rain experience is utterly mindblowingly
incredible, many people here will rather talk about the lack of this or that. Oh
well...

What about artistic signature. For some reason it gives me a warm feeling inside
(I'm getting poetic here  :-)  ) He does it his way and won't compromise just
because "The Market" demands it. Really a shame for those who have other ideas,
but I'm lucky enough to agree with his approach.

You still have GPL, so don't dare to complain!!!!

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------

So why the hell are they complaining about things like the lack of grip and
resulting lack of overtaking possibilities all the time (with a certain JV
adding far more than his $0.02 BTW)? Have I been hallucinating or something?

JoH

------- The best way to accelerate a Mac is 9.81 m/s2 --------
--------------------------------------------------------------