rec.autos.simulators

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

Michael E. Carve

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by Michael E. Carve » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00

GPL also had a large demand for hardware to run.  I think this also hurt
the sales.

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Michael E. Carve

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by Michael E. Carve » Tue, 18 May 1999 04:00:00


% Hardest "game" to some, and most realistic "simulation" others...

Hard maybe to start with, but of late I am beginning to wonder why it
seemed so difficult months ago.  The more I practice and race the easier
it gets.  Howerver, while it maybe getting easier, there are still miles
and miles for me to go to fully master it.  That's what makes GPL so
great in my book.  The more I dig, the more I find (in both the sim and
myself).

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

'John' Joao Sil

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by 'John' Joao Sil » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

I would pay 2 to 3 times the price of a normal game for GPL's physics in
a modern F1 sim!

And yes, GPL really does feel like a labour of love, and everytime I get to
drive my Ferrari through all those amazing corners of the Nurburgring
I am thankful that the Papyrus guys had the vision and the guts to
do what they've done with GPL and model these difficult but tremendously
rewarding 1967 cars and tracks.

It's too bad that the game has done poorly in the sales dept, but I know
that many of us will be enjoying GPL for years to come, I can only hope
that after Papyrus makes some money with Nascar2000, and that they can
return after that to make a "pure" simulation of CART or F1 (or any other
roadracing series), I would love to see what the GPL physics model could
do with wings.

Meanwhile we can continue to race our little hearts out on VROC :-)

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva



>Hi John,

>Absolutely spot on with all points in your post.  It is all too rare that we
>see a project that clearly reflects the passion of the designer (GP2 & GPL
>spring to mind).  It's really a shame for all involved that GPL bombed.  Can
>you imagine how DK and the rest must have felt to have their work stolen by
>the Warez guys and buried by the masses before it was even out of the
>starting gate?  I'm afraid we may lose the opportunity to experience a sim
>like GPL in the future unless we are prepared to pay 3-4 times as much for
>it in a niche market scenario.  Which I would do in a heartbeat by the way.

>regards,
>Patrick

David Ewin

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by David Ewin » Wed, 19 May 1999 04:00:00

Everyone keeps posting about how GPL "bombed".  Does anyone know the real
sales figures? And what are the sales figures of other titles in the racing
simulator genre?  What's the profit margin on games?  Did Papyrus actually
lose money on the project, break even, or not make as much as they had hoped?

Just curious,

Dave Ewing

John Bod

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by John Bod » Thu, 20 May 1999 04:00:00

On Tue, 18 May 1999 09:41:49 -0600, David Ewing


>Everyone keeps posting about how GPL "bombed".  Does anyone know the real
>sales figures? And what are the sales figures of other titles in the racing
>simulator genre?  What's the profit margin on games?  Did Papyrus actually
>lose money on the project, break even, or not make as much as they had hoped?

>Just curious,

I have no figures, but I was told by someone involved with Sierra
Sports that Viper Racing has outsold GPL.  I don't know if this means
that GPL has "bombed," but I did find it surprising.  

FWIW, I think the V1.1 patch will create a new surge in GPL sales.  In
fact, I anticipate a re-release of GPL by Papy as a "new, FF-equipped
version," kind of like EA did with NFSII SE.

-- JB

Andrew MacPhers

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by Andrew MacPhers » Thu, 20 May 1999 04:00:00

Absolutely. As for GPL's financial success... well, I bought a second copy recently. Tiny
drop in a big ocean, but this sim's given me a year's pleasure already (including the
demo) with plenty more to come. Maybe products like this should be rented, not
bought, that way great products could show their true worth in the medium and long
term, possibly outperforming some of the more popular titles which are played for a few
weeks then discarded in favour of the latest software "fix".

Ok, renting's never going to work... software keys would be hacked, and the market --
even the serious sim market -- might not be ready for it. But somehow companies have
got to be able to justify products like GPL. The bottom line is always profit, and the fun
stuff has to exist to draw in the revenue to support the serious stuff, even if the
developers themselves are happy to sacrifice financial gain for professional
satisfaction.

I've wondered if Papyrus could just hacked in some downforce, stickier tyres
and put out that GPL-engined stunt racer that's been discussed before. Fantasy tracks,
emphasis on fun, and a track designer would help a lot. Still, all projects take time and
money, and nothing's ever as simple in reality as it is on paper!

Andrew McP

Andrew MacPhers

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by Andrew MacPhers » Thu, 20 May 1999 04:00:00

I agree. When *** was "new" (say five years ago) I spent a lot of money buying just
about everything, because it was all being done for the 1st time and things were
evolving rapidly. Now I buy very little software, but what I buy generally stays on the HD
for a long time.

Older and wiser, or merely a reflection that most modern software's just the same old
stuff with a glossier paint job? Either way, I'd be prepared to pay a lot more some sims
of GPL's quality. Same goes for flight sims.... paying a lot more might even encourage
me to finally get round to learning Falcon4's radar modes :-)

Andrew McP

Kirk Lan

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by Kirk Lan » Fri, 21 May 1999 04:00:00

Hey, how about taking the GPL engine, tweaking it around, and releasing it
as SODA 2?  It wouldn't be too hard, in theory....

--
Kirk Lane

ICQ: 28171652


>> I am thankful that the Papyrus guys had the vision and the guts
>> to do what they've done with GPL

>Absolutely. As for GPL's financial success... well, I bought a second copy
recently. Tiny
>drop in a big ocean, but this sim's given me a year's pleasure already
(including the
>demo) with plenty more to come. Maybe products like this should be rented,
not
>bought, that way great products could show their true worth in the medium
and long
>term, possibly outperforming some of the more popular titles which are
played for a few
>weeks then discarded in favour of the latest software "fix".

>Ok, renting's never going to work... software keys would be hacked, and the
market --
>even the serious sim market -- might not be ready for it. But somehow
companies have
>got to be able to justify products like GPL. The bottom line is always
profit, and the fun
>stuff has to exist to draw in the revenue to support the serious stuff,
even if the
>developers themselves are happy to sacrifice financial gain for
professional
>satisfaction.

>> I would love to see what the GPL physics model could do with wings.

>I've wondered if Papyrus could just hacked in some downforce, stickier
tyres
>and put out that GPL-engined stunt racer that's been discussed before.
Fantasy tracks,
>emphasis on fun, and a track designer would help a lot. Still, all projects
take time and
>money, and nothing's ever as simple in reality as it is on paper!

>Andrew McP

ymenar

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by ymenar » Sat, 22 May 1999 04:00:00


As SODA demonstrated, there is no real market for a title like that
unfortunately.  We (the hard-core simracers) are soo small that you can't
aim a title to us only. It can be done to airsims because the market is
bigger, but it's a much different situation with us.  GPL demonstrated that
;(

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard/Nas-Frank>
-- NROS Nascar sanctioned Guide http://www.nros.com/
-- SimRacing Online http://www.simracing.com/
-- Official mentally retarded guy of r.a.s.
-- May the Downforce be with you...

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realise
how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

'John' Joao Sil

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by 'John' Joao Sil » Sun, 23 May 1999 04:00:00

I agree, I wanted to buy SODA, but the demo ran like molasses on my
system in software mode, and they never delivered on a 3dfx patch,
so I never bought it.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one... this title was doomed from the start
because it was very slow with software 3D rendering, and only supported
the Rendition 3D cards (which were already outdone by the voodoo1's many
of us owned).

I would buy a SODA2 with decently fast graphics and great physics model.

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva



>The only reason why SODA did bad in sales was because it was a Redline API
>title only. If Software Alliance/Papyrus would have done at least a Glide port
>the game would have done much better.

>Alex

Jo

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by Jo » Sun, 23 May 1999 04:00:00


>The only reason why SODA did bad in sales was because it was a Redline API
>title only. If Software Alliance/Papyrus would have done at least a Glide port
>the game would have done much better.

I agree; worse yet they promised a port and then didn't deliver. I had
my wallet out, and was ready to buy ... as soon as the 3Dfx port was
done.

Joe

Jerry

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by Jerry » Mon, 24 May 1999 04:00:00

If you have a Pentium II oor AMD 300 or better you are missing a great sim.
Now all I play is GPL, but from Christmas 97 to when GPL came out this was the
only sim I would play and it's great making your own tracks with the built in
track editor.  The game will even have the AI trucks learn your new tracks.  I
have a V2200 AGP card, and the   Rendition support only hads bilinear filtering
and no other hardware speed up.  A Pentium II 300 runs the game at 640 x 480 at
25-30 fps withh all details set at max and 30 fps is max fopr the game anyway.
I originally played this game on a K5-166 at 320 x 240 with just a few details
turned off and it still was fun..  There is also a 320 x 240 mode for slower
systems.  Right now SODA is in the bargain bin and worth the investment.  By
the way, SODA is a real sim and not an arcade racer.  More like GPL than
Monster truck madness.

Try it,
Jerry

'John' Joao Sil

Different situation about Papyrus software (E3 article)

by 'John' Joao Sil » Mon, 24 May 1999 04:00:00

Thanks Jerry,

I'll grab it if I happen to spot it in the bargain bin.

Right now I am way to ***ed to GPL VROC racing against humans to be
very satisfied driving against AI drivers anymore.

But if I spot it I'll check it out to see how it runs on a PC capable of
running it at 25FPS.

Seeyas on the track.

--John (Joao) Silva



>If you have a Pentium II oor AMD 300 or better you are missing a great sim.
>Now all I play is GPL, but from Christmas 97 to when GPL came out this was the
>only sim I would play and it's great making your own tracks with the built in
>track editor.  The game will even have the AI trucks learn your new tracks.  I
>have a V2200 AGP card, and the   Rendition support only hads bilinear filtering
>and no other hardware speed up.  A Pentium II 300 runs the game at 640 x 480 at
>25-30 fps withh all details set at max and 30 fps is max fopr the game anyway.
>I originally played this game on a K5-166 at 320 x 240 with just a few details
>turned off and it still was fun..  There is also a 320 x 240 mode for slower
>systems.  Right now SODA is in the bargain bin and worth the investment.  By
>the way, SODA is a real sim and not an arcade racer.  More like GPL than
>Monster truck madness.

>Try it,
>Jerry


rec.autos.simulators is a usenet newsgroup formed in December, 1993. As this group was always unmoderated there may be some spam or off topic articles included. Some links do point back to racesimcentral.net as we could not validate the original address. Please report any pages that you believe warrant deletion from this archive (include the link in your email). RaceSimCentral.net is in no way responsible and does not endorse any of the content herein.