rec.autos.simulators

by **Joachim Trens** » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 10:24:42

From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same car -
you haven't even got a choice, except for a slightly different design when
you change from 'Chevrolet' to 'Pontiac', from 'Penske' to 'Lola', from
'Ferrari' to 'Benetton' - it's always the same car, just the painting is a
little different, and maybe minor details of the shape.

Only GPL had truly different cars, but in GPL online leagues, most drivers
used the same car throughout an entire season - many leagues even required
that.

Also, it's realistic. In real racing, you drive or drove an Opel Astra or
Mercedes, a Porsche 917 or the Lotus 49, all season long because a contract
binds or bound you to that team.

Therefor, buying one new car every year for me is ok. It's none different
from what we've always had in in our sims, and it's realistic, too.

Achim

> > The one-car approach is ok, all you need for a racing series is one car.
> So
> > you buy one car per year, no prob with that.

> You really think people are going to only want 4 cars after 4 year of
racing
> the same sim on the same singl) track ????

> All those countdown car pictures.. all lies...

by **David G Fishe** » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:39:41

There's quite a difference between cars in sims like F1RC and F12002. In
RC2000 you had many different cars to drive.

That doesn't really matter anyway. Compared to real life race car driving,
sims kind of.........suck. :-) We only do this because we can't do the
other. Why would I want to be limited by the exact same constraints as real
life? One car a year? Life's a little too short for that in my virtual
reality world. Might as well charge me $250,000,000 to run a season with
Ferrari in F120002 then. :-)

David G Fisher

> From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same car -
> you haven't even got a choice, except for a slightly different design when
> you change from 'Chevrolet' to 'Pontiac', from 'Penske' to 'Lola', from
> 'Ferrari' to 'Benetton' - it's always the same car, just the painting is a
> little different, and maybe minor details of the shape.

> Only GPL had truly different cars, but in GPL online leagues, most drivers
> used the same car throughout an entire season - many leagues even required
> that.

> Also, it's realistic. In real racing, you drive or drove an Opel Astra or
> Mercedes, a Porsche 917 or the Lotus 49, all season long because a
contract
> binds or bound you to that team.

> Therefor, buying one new car every year for me is ok. It's none different
> from what we've always had in in our sims, and it's realistic, too.

> Achim

> > > The one-car approach is ok, all you need for a racing series is one
car.
> > So
> > > you buy one car per year, no prob with that.

> > You really think people are going to only want 4 cars after 4 year of
> racing
> > the same sim on the same singl) track ????

> > All those countdown car pictures.. all lies...

by **ymenar** » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:34:44

> From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same car -

Fair point.

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **B.Farme** » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 08:56:37

<snip>

Gonna get there in that time machine you were talking about b4? Can I go?

Nawwwww, on second thought, forget it, it might freeze up for 3 sec & then
where (when?) would I be? ;-)

Brian

by **David G Fishe** » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 09:28:17

Too bad Larry didn't have a freeze yesterday, you might have had a chance to
finish third.

RASCAR trash talk is on! :-)

David G Fisher

by **Dave Henri** » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:13:03

> > From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same
car -

> Fair point.

But not entirely true. With the ICR sims, the Honda was blessed with
top end power, the fords with an all-round power band and the Chevy/Mercedes
had low end grunt.

THe N1/N2/N99 had 3 distinct handling differences Ford had more
downforce, Chevy less and Pontiac the most balanced.

With N4/N2k2 they have virtually used the same chassis and engine
characteristics which is ok because that is what Nascar is attempting to
achieve anyhow...parity without using 100% exactly equal equipment.
dave henrie

by **The Enigmatic O** » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 15:19:15

We've got our first confirmed sucker. Any more?

-Tim

by **Mats Lofkvis** » Tue, 16 Jul 2002 17:30:14

> >If RL is going to be as good as they promise, I sure as hell am
> >willing to pay that amount of money for the core program, and pay more
> >money for extra cars & tracks.

> We've got our first confirmed sucker. Any more?

Count me in.

_
Mats Lofkvist

by JM » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:06:47

On a related note, the commentator on the Busch Daytona race mentioned that
a lot of the "chevy" teams were running pontiac bodyshells there for the
aero advantage (which they can do because they're not "restricted" by
manufacturer?). WC uses the same body shapes as Busch doesn't it? In which
case, N2002 only has one car when it should have 4. Similar <> Equal.

Has everyone here forgotten just how much FUN the original Papy Indy 500
was? (I played that for hundreds of hours on my Amiga).

How many cars did it have?
How many tracks did it have?

Seriously...

cheers
John

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:39:11

Has Papy ever confirmed this? Because as far as I remember all differences
between cars in Papy sims except GPL were purely down to what users thought
they'd felt. I was one of those who kept speculating but in the end decided
that there are no differences :-)

Achim

> > > From N1 to N2002, ICR1, ICR2, GP1 to GP 4, you always drive the same
> car -

> > Fair point.

> But not entirely true. With the ICR sims, the Honda was blessed with
> top end power, the fords with an all-round power band and the
Chevy/Mercedes
> had low end grunt.

> THe N1/N2/N99 had 3 distinct handling differences Ford had more
> downforce, Chevy less and Pontiac the most balanced.

> With N4/N2k2 they have virtually used the same chassis and engine
> characteristics which is ok because that is what Nascar is attempting to
> achieve anyhow...parity without using 100% exactly equal equipment.
> dave henrie

by **Joachim Trens** » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 02:40:11

Practical considerations Dave. If you compete in a series, all you need is
one car per season.

Achim

by **Joe6** » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:03:12

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:16:22 GMT, "Alex Kihurani"

>http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd...
>33&act=ST&f=1&t=224&st=0&#entry3085

>This should answer a few of your questions.

Just one question. Do they SERIOUSLY intend on shipping a $100+ sim
with ONE car and ONE track?

I mean, seriously?

It would not only have to be better than every other sim ever made, it
would have to blow them out of the water. It would have to make GPL
and Nascar 4 look like arcade games by comparison. And even then it
probably wouldn't sell.

by **Joe6** » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:05:06

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:45:35 +0200, Andre Warringa

>If the core program is that good, I think they can make so much more
>money by selling lots of copies of the core program at a normal price,
>and THEN earn the real money with all the addons.

At one car and track, the "core program" IS the demo. The only
possible way this can work is if that is free, and for a reasonable
price ($40) you can upgrade to the quantity of content you'd get in a
commercial game.

by **Joe6** » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:05:46

On Sun, 14 Jul 2002 11:45:35 +0200, Andre Warringa

>Basicly like Playstation and Nintendo work.. they don't earn the money
>with the consoles themselves...

A myth. Only Microsoft loses money on console hardware.

by **Wayne Bradle** » Wed, 17 Jul 2002 03:05:34

How dare you question!

j/k

> "This has not been decided as it depends very much on predicted sales,
which
> in turn depend on the response from the community. The more of us who buy
> into the concept the cheaper it will be."
> Building software based on such a lax/speculative pricing structure is an
> accident waiting to happen IMHO.

> "They test on a P3 733 with V5"
> Why?? Could they not find an older slower PC and video card to use? Why
> not optimize the game for newer cards with better features for rendering
and
> shading?

> "I didn't push this biggie. Very few products are done on time and they
are
> not stupid, so we are not going to get an answer to this yet IMO. "
> Only products with a poor design spec and project plan fail to meet
> deadlines. Not having a target date in place leads to issues of code
bloat
> and feature creep that can keep a product shipping for months.

http://www.west-racing.com/forums/index.php?s=1821d147ca5556fad744bbd...

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