rec.autos.simulators

Or should that be 'MY trouble with GP2 is...'?

OK, so here's a few thoughts, and a few gripes. Firstly, it's too damn
hard!! Yes, it's maybe good for all you ace hotlappers out there but
what about us beginners? I mean 'rookie' level should MEAN rookie for
***'s sake. What's the point of having all those levels if a beginner
can't compete at rookie level? Maybe I'm just REALLY bad at this, I
dunno.

I need a bit of advice from you experts about driving aids. So far I'm
driving with all of 'em switched on, but the problem here is I am just
SO much slower than the rest of the field (yes, still on rookie
level). I've had a look at some of the lap times achieved by the game
testers, as posted by John Wallace, and it scares the shit out of me!
I don't think I've come within 10 seconds of any of these times. So,
the question is, should I learn to drive without braking, throttle
assistance, etc? I must admit, I tried driving with manual braking but
spent more time in the gravel pits than on the track. I know what
you're going to say..."learn the tracks", but what should I do, pick a
track and practice, practice, practice without driving aids or what?

The (non)replays are pretty shit aren't they? Where's the VCR type
controls of ICR2? Why are replays limited to 20 secs? Don't say to
save disk space, the *** already ate up 54Mb's. 54 MEGS!!! think
about that for a minute, for a game which is basically F1GP tarted up
with some pretty graphics, and that came on two floppies!

Pit stops, now here's a thing. I'd have thought if pit stops were
disabled, then things like tyre wear wouldn't have an effect on the
race. Not so. I run races at 20% length with stops disabled (never
seen the point of running 100% length), but I find my lap times get
increasingly longer as the race progresses? Why? Also, I tried
enabling pit stops but I didn't see the point. All was going well
until I was called in at lap 7/14. OK, great, I thought, the other
cars will pit too, Did they hell! They carried on their merry way,
leaving me to roll in last (I was third before I pitted!), what's the
point in that then?

Modem play, wonder what that's like! I've just spent weeks getting my
modem to work in DOS on COM2, it was a BIG hassle. Now I find that COM
ports 1 & 2 are disabled 'cos my mouse is on COM1, give me strength!!
Why does it disable both of them??? Yes, I know you can use the
command 'linkonmouseport' to override this but COM2 is STILL greyed
out. I guess I'm destined never to play GP2 over the modem, great.

Sorry for all these negative thoughts but I'm a bit pissed off after
waiting so long for this game, and then being so bad at it. Maybe I
should treat myself to a new video card and try it out in SVGA (my
card is a museum piece, it's ISA, remember those?). Or maybe I should
buy a Playstation with F1 and NEVER have to worry about frame rates
ever again!

Oh, and if anyone has any help on car setups to help me in my quest
for respectable lap times, please pass on your knowledge to this
learner, I'm determined to get good at this.

[Deek]

: Or should that be 'MY trouble with GP2 is...'?

[snipped about Deek's problems and questions]

Deek, I personally feel that the best way to get over this first
learning curve is to take it easy and be patient.  Start with a default
setup and practice with the all the driving aids on.  Practice a track
until your times become consistant.  Don't necessarily look for
increasing your time.  Look for making your time consistant.  This is
actually the first step at getting faster.  Believe me, it's true.  You
can actually go faster by going slower.  For this first step, I suggest
picking a particular track and staying with it.  Don't go bouncing
around to different tracks.  Remember, you're still a Rookie and your
team ain't ready to spend big bucks hauling all of this equipment around
the world to different tracks.

Once you have accomplished the above choose a driver aid to turn off.
Just choose one.  It can be a big mistake to make too big a leap in one
go.  Now it's all back to the above.  Once you've gotten good consistant
time, remove another driver aid and so forth.  This can be a long
process, but the rewards can be wonderful.  You will eventually be
driving without any driver aids and will be increasing your times and
will be looking back wondering, "what was my problem?"

When you move on to a new track you might want to switch on the driver
aids again, just to get the feel of the track.  

One last tip.  (And I think it will work, still awaiting GP2 here in the
USofA.)  Ride around the track from one of the AI drivers (or as you Old
Worlder's like say CC drivers) and observe.

Have, fun & remember they say it's simulation.  And driving F1 can't be
all that easy, just look at Michael Andretti's attempt ;-)

--

**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

...about his troubles with GP2...

Well, for a start - it is difficult.  One of the main reasons you're so
far behind the computer is those driving aids.  Turn off the steering and
braking assistance AT LEAST - they really slow you down.  When learning a
new circuit I usually switch dotted best line and suggested gear on until
I know it by heart.  You'll also HAVE to mess with the car setup - at
amatuer level, to begin with, I just could not keep up with the front
runners becuase their straight line speed was so much greater than mine
but after a couple of hours of fiddling I can now stick with Alesi and
Hill down a straight and I'm faster through the corners by far.

I'v also found that practising late braking without locking up the tires
helps a great deal, otherwise even at this level you get outbraked at
every other corner.

I would pick Monza as the track to learn if you're having problems - it's
got lots of nice top speed straights and late braking first / second gear
chicanes.  And there aren't any blind corners, either....

Ian

EXACTLY! There's no other way than practicing. Studying the manual won't help
very much I'm afraid :-)

"Gravity doesn't exist; the Earth sucks!"

Hi Deek!

First of I think it's _great_ that it's difficult. This equals
longevity. I too am finding it tough going, but I am making progress.
For me, I use auto-shifting, throttle help, dotted line, suggested gear
and steering help. Auto shifting gives you one less thing to worry
about. Throttle help cuts down on spins coming out of corners. Dotted
line is a great way to learn the proper line - _use_ this. Suggested
gear is a good indication of how much to brake for a corner - apply the
brakes until the autoshift puts you in the same gear as the suggested
gear indicator displays, then just jockey the throttle through the
corner. Finally, steering help detracts from realism, but does help you
learn circuits and master the basics. Using this configuration I have
qualified pole and won at Imola as part of a championship, and came in
second at Brazil.

I emailed John Wallace about this, and he explained that a scaled down
race _isn't_ a scaled down race, but a shortened one. That is, at 50%,
71 laps are not compressed into 35, you just drive 35 real laps. So what
you must do is set the race length such that CCs will _have_ to pit in
for fuel and or tyres. Whatever length you choose, your tyres will
degrade, so choose a length where you have enough time to gain an
advantage from pitting for fresh tyres.

Other than that, it's trite but... practice practice practice! Honestly,
GP2 is a superb simulator, and you will feel the reward if you give it
some effort. All the best, and I hope this has helped.

regards,

Paul.

***********************************************************************
*             Paul L. Finnemore - Apprentice Veterinarian             *

*    "I haven't lost my mind. It's backed up on tape somewhere..."    *
***********************************************************************

Had an amusing race where I ran a (I think) 30% race and was in 12th
place going into final lap having made one pitstop and gained 6
places in that last lap as the CC cars ran out of petrol presumably
having not stopped at all!

Al

The trouble with GP2 is......

That its not here in Lafayette, La. yet.  <G>

Michael Muhammad

I will suggest you trun off the autobreak and steeling help.  Those two
are real not going to help you with you time. IMHO this two is more to
design to keep you on the track not improve your time.

Actually, F1GP is in three floppies!!!

OK, so the tyres will need to be changed during long races. How can one
tell when they need to be changed, except from maybe having trouble
controlling the car? Will it show on the dashboard somewhere?

Also, I'm curious what controll method you all use for brakes and
throttle? I find it hard to use forward/back stick for this so I have set
it up to use the 2 buttons instead (on a Flightstick). However a digital
controll for this is also a terrible thing, I cant accelerate from low
speeds without spinning and I certainly cant brake without locking the
wheels. Has anyone tried it with a Thrustmaster T2? I'm really
considering buying such a device now.

--
     /Vegard

: Also, I'm curious what controll method you all use for brakes and
: throttle? I find it hard to use forward/back stick for this so I have set
: it up to use the 2 buttons instead (on a Flightstick). However a digital
: controll for this is also a terrible thing, I cant accelerate from low
: speeds without spinning and I certainly cant brake without locking the
: wheels. Has anyone tried it with a Thrustmaster T2? I'm really
: considering buying such a device now.

I use the old T1 and am quite pleased with the results in GP2.  If you
do pick one up, check out the info on adding "switches" to the steering
wheel or wait a month or 2 as I understand Thrustmaster is coming out
with a unit with switches on the whell.  However, I'm not sure that this
unit comes with pedals.  Can someone clarify this last item?

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

writes

Two ways to know...

Firstly you will get a "Tyres Worn" message on the dashboard when things
get bad.

Secondly, you'll have trouble keeping the car pointing the right way :)

Cheers!
John

                     _________________________________
         __    _____|                                 |_____    __
________|  |__|    :|           John Wallace          |     |__|  |________

  \    :|  |::|    :|        Team WW Racing TSW       |     |::|  |     /
    >  :|  |::|    :|_________________________________|     |::|  |   <
  /    :|__|::|____/       * Sim Racing News *         \____|::|__|     \
/______:/  \::/ http://sneezy.dcn.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm \::/  \._____\
               http://www.math.ohio-state.edu/~harmon/simnews

spoke the following words of wisdom...

I asked this question somewhere else, and the reply (logically) said
pretty much that the tyres are worn when they feel worn! You can look at
the advanced set-up screen for an illustration of how much wear has
occurred, but if you play long enough, you really do start to develop a
feel for things like tyre degradation.

I agree with your comments about digital brake and throttle - in my
opinion you really _need_ analogue control. I use a T2 myself, and I am
delighted with it. I find it responsive and sturdy, and it has never
given me any problems. This is, however, just my opinion. It's the only
wheel I've ever used, so I'm not going to stand here and say it's the
best. I know many people criticise it for being flimsy, and easy to wear
out. I also know that there are many more sophisticated wheel systems
available. If you can try before you buy, I think you should do so.
Failing that, check out the excellent Sim Racing News (http://sneezy.dcn
.ed.ac.uk/simnews/index.htm) for a whole host of info, tests, and
surveys on controllers. I can't recall which issue (June or July), and
it may even be both of them.

Enjoy your racing,

Paul.

***********************************************************************
*             Paul L. Finnemore - Apprentice Veterinarian             *

*    "I haven't lost my mind. It's backed up on tape somewhere..."    *
***********************************************************************