rec.autos.simulators

I like toast and jam please.... and make sure the toast isnt black...that
really pisses me off :)))
Im sure GP3 will be great. I, like we all have, have waited sooooo long. It
JUST has to be good <BG>
http://www.racesimcentral.net/

sure it is Jo... If I'm interpreting everything properly (which honestly,
things get interpreted with a pretty high chance of misunderstanding around
here.) The question was basically, if the game turns out to not have physics
as deep as GPL (which in some peoples fair opinion would be substandard,
that's fair if what you want is the absolute closest thing to reality) in
this newsgroup. How bad will it get? People tempers have gotten high as of
late about GPL when people compared it to F12K, which wasn't nearly as
highly anticipated.

I personally think it's time to start over again and stop jumping to
conclusions. Just because someone says swamp buggy racing isn't as good as
GPL, doesn't mean that their some sort of crazy that will only accept GPL
forever. That goes on up the scale of realism. Most everyone but not
everyone would accept that kind of talk about Nascar 2000, even less would
so about SCGT, and even less for F12K. So if you ask me, we're all in
agreement that GPL is a great sim, (if not a great game) but that we're not
in agreement over to what point it should be compared to other games.

I personally think it's fair to say, if you have reasoning, to say that
another game just doesn't live up to GPL's standards in the physics
department, without a flame from someone. I don't think it's ok to play a
game for 3 laps, call it crap, and flame everyone who's playing it instead
of GPL. Lets all remember that so many people brought GPL back to the store
because they spent a day with it, with a bad controller and gave up on it.

So in this case Jo I slightly agree with you. I don't think it's fair to
compare GP3 to GPL when you just had one day with a bad controller.

Good enough for me :)

Andre

I have absolutely no problem with people who worship (up to a point
where *I* find it absurd) the physics in a racingsim. But I often get
the feeling that many of them tend to be rather narrowminded. In the
sense that they will think of anything else as essentially simply
"inferior". Not "different" or "another approach" but plain simply
"below par". Instead of recognising that other interpretations of the
racingsim genre can also be valid and can have their merits, too.

JoH

If you buy a new import beer and don't like it, would you still buy
it, just to by something different from your favourite ?

If a friend of yours is drinking the beer you didn't like and ask you
what you think, do you then answer "I don't like it" or "It tastes
nearly as good as my favorite, but it's a little too flat for me, so I
will only buy it from time to time since it's beer" ?

Disclaimer : I may follow up a bit out of context here, but I just got
this beer idea into my head (hmm, still only Wednesday), and had to
share it.

I've said it before, and say it again, no race-sim released after GPL
has given me the WHOOOAA feel that I got first time I floored the
throttle on the back straight of Watkins Glen in the GPL demo. The
WHOOOAA moment I had before that was when I bought GP2 and flew up the
hill towards *** at Monaco. I'm still waiting, hoping for this
sensation again. Maybe GP3, maybe N4, maybe WSC, time will tell. (hmm,
going far off-topic now)

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying

Olav, you're close   :-)

A number of GPL ***s over here would answer the beer question with
"It sucks, period!", EVEN if he knew that his friend liked it.  But
tastes differ, so this is a very *unreasonable* answer by an
*unreasonable* person.

Not that this analogy is flawless....

JoH

Not as close as you think :))

"it suck!" is always a bad answer no matter what, "I don't like it" is
a subjective opinion, so we agree there.

Depending on how bad it is, I think most people would go from "don't
like it" to "not as good"

I threw in the line "so I will only buy it from time to time since
it's beer" to try to prove my point. Who buys something not so good,
when the best is available ?

I was just trying to provoke a little bit, and offer a different
perspective. My point is still that I try out new sims and see what
they have to offer, but sadly I return to GPL exclusivly after some
time (more than 30 minutes :)

Hehe

--
Olav K. Malmin
remove spam when replying

Just to clearify a few things here....

I don't worship GPL at all. Sure I enjoy it like hell and it's still
(unbeleivably enough) the "top-dog" of sims out there.

I merly aired my thought and feeling of GP3 based upon what I saw and felt..

Sure the wheel and controllers in that***pit they had there were below par
(a blue***pit - like the one they had at E3 - I believe), but it still
felt weird.

To me it looked and felt just like GP2 apart from the Hardware acceleration.

I guess a good way to put it is that GP3 sounded and felt a bit like Nascar
3.... whilch was basicly a new version of Nascar 2.

I asked the representative there about multiplayer-features and such... sure
they would do 16 player multi-races, but only LAN...  "...because of the
"lag"  occuring when 2 cars are racing side by side etc...", i.e.  no net
play - accoding to him.
This alone is a damn good reason for me NOT to buy GP3!

GP3 might turn out to be much better than what I saw at Goodwood, but
without any online play, it's still not worth it in *my* book.

Ed_

% I have absolutely no problem with people who worship (up to a point
% where *I* find it absurd) the physics in a racingsim. But I often get
% the feeling that many of them tend to be rather narrowminded. In the
% sense that they will think of anything else as essentially simply
% "inferior". Not "different" or "another approach" but plain simply
% "below par". Instead of recognising that other interpretations of the
% racingsim genre can also be valid and can have their merits, too.

But you also have to accept that fact that for them it is inferior if it
doesn't deliver the goods they expect or desire.  I think you have
mentioned "religion" in some threads here.....  Well the same is true
about what religion one adheres to.  Some religions offer "features"
that others don't.  That's called tolerence.  Accept that and be
tolerent of their intolerence.  Else you are being as intolerent as they
are....

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

% A number of GPL ***s over here would answer the beer question with
% "It sucks, period!", EVEN if he knew that his friend liked it.  But
% tastes differ, so this is a very *unreasonable* answer by an
% *unreasonable* person.

And we have the GPL detractors that say GPL sucks.... that's life (and
by the way..... r.a.s. is doing a great job of simulating real life --
except for the whimpy physics <G>).

--
**************************** Michael E. Carver *************************
     Upside out, or inside down...False alarm the only game in town.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=<[ /./.  [-  < ]>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

  Possibly because Jo, for the last two years we have seen posts here in
RAS, print advertising and word of mouth that sim X  or sim Y  was going to
have gpl or better physics.  After you hear it over and over but have yet to
see anything rival gpl's physics, it is easy to understand why folks get so
worked up.
  Heck, we'd LOVE it if EVERY new sim far surpassed GPL.  We are not here
yammering about how nothing else can ever top GPL, but rather, two years ago
we got a taste of something special....we liked that taste, and we want
more----but so far at least: nothing has sastified our taste buds. (boy talk
about sentence run-on!)
  Some absolutely dreadful racing sims have been made with promises of
realism that rivals GPL, but obviously that was just marketing fluff.  And
some actually pretty good sims have made the attempt to match gpl, but have
fallen short.  I think our patience has been worn thin by the false and
spurious claims many companies have made so that even when some product
comes close to GPL, we still feel letdown.
dave henrie

THAT's more like it, Ed   ;-)

I'm still wondering how relevant the "feeling" is that you get after a
few laps with a game that you don't know, an unfamiliar controller and
an unfamiliar environment. There's simply no time to settle.

Just FYI:

- the sound used in that demo was still the GP2 sound (was used during
development). (source: producer of GP3)

- the demo-Monaco was wider than the final version (source: producer
of GP3)

- the latest specs of GP3 (as mentioned on the Official German GP3
site) now also talk about TCP/IP support, for the first time.

- until just a few weeks ago (so, in the demo as well), FF wasn't
officially included either. But now it is, and it is advertised to be
"linked to the physics engine" so it doesn't sound like a quick job
they did. According to the producer, FF was postponed to GP4 because
early tests didn't give satisfying results. But the disappointment on
the Internet forums seems to have pushed them to finalise it in time
for GP3.

Compare what happened with FF to the TCP/IP story, and it seems they
will ship GP3 with a TCP/IP implementation that works well over a LAN
but will have flaws over WAN. Sounds very similar to what happened
with GPL?

If all this turns out to be true, then maybe GP3 won't be executed on
RAS after all   :-)

JoH

On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 16:00:16 GMT, "Michael E. Carver"

I don't think one is expected to accept intollerance. It has to come
from both sides, and it doesn't always.

Look, I'm not letting my sleep for this   :-)   I'm mainly pointing
out that I understand what some people mean when they talk about
certain people in the GPL scene appearing rude, unreasonable and
over-fanatic.

JoH

Hey, as long as the tracks are accurate within plus or minus .05 inch, most
will be happy.
:)

not - I sure hope that's not the case,

--
Don Burnette
Dburn in N3 and Legends
ICQ# 74084566

Crammond been hiding out in a cave these last few years or what?
I still cannot believe their going to release a racing "sim" in the year
2000, with no more mulitplayer support than what they say it will have.
Unbelievable,

--
Don Burnette
Dburn in N3 and Legends
ICQ# 74084566