rec.autos.simulators

N3: don't understand some rules!

Zoll

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Zoll » Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Hi,
as a newbee to NASCAR sims I got some questions about the rules in N3:

1) Until now I always thought it is not allowed to overtake when the yellow
flag is out. But when I slowed down because of a yellow flag, an AI car
overtook me. So is overtaking only forbidden, when the pace car is on the
track?

2) Starting on pole at Talladega, I got disqualified because I "overtook"
the pace car, which had disappeared behind the pit road wall...
Do I have to keep exactly the same speed until the green flag is out, or
what?
I find it extremely difficult not to miss the green flag, especially because
the AI cars often seem to accelerate before it is out. When I try to follow,
they get slower, I have to break and normally that's the place, where the
flag goes green.
When the spotter anounces the green flag, it also seems to be a little late.
How is it possible to do a perfect start?

The Bl

N3: don't understand some rules!

by The Bl » Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:00:00

On Mon, 4 Oct 1999 02:03:29 +0200, "Zolli"


>Hi,
>as a newbee to NASCAR sims I got some questions about the rules in N3:

>1) Until now I always thought it is not allowed to overtake when the yellow
>flag is out. But when I slowed down because of a yellow flag, an AI car
>overtook me. So is overtaking only forbidden, when the pace car is on the
>track?

The cars "Race back to the line"  -  this means after the yellow flag
comes out - the Lead car needs to get back to the line - if the leader
has just passed the line, then the yellow flies, he (and everyone
else) must race around an entire lap to take the yellow. It doesn't
matter what your position is - only the leader. You can also tell if
you should race or slow down by whether the starter is waving the
yellow flag when you go by - if he's waving it, stop racing and get in
line, if it's just being shown, race back to it.

It's all in the timing here. You do need to stay at that pace speed
till the green comes out, then start racing. After a few races you'll
pick up where the leader is in respect to the line, when they show
green.

Doug Schneide

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Doug Schneide » Tue, 05 Oct 1999 04:00:00

1) When you first hear that the yellow flag is out, you are still racing until
you cross the start/finish line.  When you cross the start finish line, you will
hear your spotter say something like "OK, we're under caution, slow it down".
Only then do you slow down, and after that no AI cars should pass you anymore.

2)You must not pass the pace car until it goes behind the pit wall.  When I am
in the lead, I stay far enough back from the pace car that I can watch it leave
the track and go behind the wall, just to be sure.  There is no advantage (that
I know of) to stay so close to the pace car that you run the risk of passing it
accidentally when it leaves the track.  I don't believe you have to keep exactly
the same speed until the green is out.  I usually stay at the pace lap speed
until I can see the flagman, then very gradually start speeding up for the
green.

The AI cars do a lot of wierd things.  The slowing down and speeding up just
before green flags seems to be a result of the "pass the pace car" thing.  It
seems that when the pace car leaves the track, the whole field speeds up, then
slows down again to avoid passing the pace car, then speeds up again when the
pace car goes behind the wall.

In my experience, the only time you do a perfect start is when you are in the
front row.  When I'm up front, I don't listen to my spotter, I watch the
flagman.  It seems that the green flag comes out just before your spotter tells
you, which makes sense because he can't tell you until after he sees it.  So if
you watch the flagman you get a bit of a jump on the competition.  If you're
anywhere else back in the pack, just try to stay with the car in front of you
and try to remember where and when the AI cars do their speed up/slow down
things at each track.

Happy racing

            Zog


> Hi,
> as a newbee to NASCAR sims I got some questions about the rules in N3:

> 1) Until now I always thought it is not allowed to overtake when the yellow
> flag is out. But when I slowed down because of a yellow flag, an AI car
> overtook me. So is overtaking only forbidden, when the pace car is on the
> track?

> 2) Starting on pole at Talladega, I got disqualified because I "overtook"
> the pace car, which had disappeared behind the pit road wall...
> Do I have to keep exactly the same speed until the green flag is out, or
> what?
> I find it extremely difficult not to miss the green flag, especially because
> the AI cars often seem to accelerate before it is out. When I try to follow,
> they get slower, I have to break and normally that's the place, where the
> flag goes green.
> When the spotter anounces the green flag, it also seems to be a little late.
> How is it possible to do a perfect start?

Zoll

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Zoll » Wed, 06 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Thanks, I got this now.

Well... , I mostly got problems when I'm the leader...
Ran Lowe's today and got a black flag after caution, speeding up too soon
after the pace car had left, though I was in first place (and didn't
overtake the pace car).
Trying it again, the AI overtook me at start and later on at restart after
caution!
They just pass you and don't get disqualified...

CU
Zolli

Zoll

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Zoll » Wed, 06 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Thanks, now I see...

I try that too, but the AI passes me!

So I'm not the only one, who saw this ;-)

BTW, besides this behaviour, I really love the AI in N3.

CU
Zolli

Keepe

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Keepe » Wed, 06 Oct 1999 04:00:00


>1) When you first hear that the yellow flag is out, you are still racing until
>you cross the start/finish line.  When you cross the start finish line, you will
>hear your spotter say something like "OK, we're under caution, slow it down".
>Only then do you slow down, and after that no AI cars should pass you anymore.

If you're well back from the leader, you may have to cross the
line twice -- if the yellow came out after the leader crossed
the line but before you did.  You'll be racing for more than one
complete lap before you actually take the yellow.

You will see AI cars pass you near the end of the yellow flag
period if there are any who are a lap down, since lead-lap cars
line up in a column to the right of lapped cars.  If YOU'RE a
lap down, then on the last lap of caution you'll be allowed to
pass everybody and line up on the inside.

Yes you do.  At least, in real NASCAR racing you do.  The problem
with bunching is just bad beta testing.  There are numbers you can
change in the track's text file that change when the pace car leaves
the track and where the pace car must be when the green flag comes
out.  I did fixes of those for a couple converted NASCAR Racing tracks
in ICR2 a long time ago.  I might have been persuaded to do the same
thing if N3 had gripped me, but since other than graphics it's pretty
much the same as N2, with added pointless wobbling of the cars so they
look like toys going round the track, it's not taking too much time
from my GPL frustrations.  Mind you, the AI does seem somewhat better
in terms of how they race.  They still can't pass you if you stop in
front of them, of course.  I am playing N3, just not much.  I expect
I'll enjoy NL more.

--

http://www2.cruzio.com/~keeper/toons.html - Animaniacs, P&TB, F!, etc. files
http://www.armory.com/~keeper/midi.html - My own MIDI files - Updated 5 Dec.

James Wohlev

N3: don't understand some rules!

by James Wohlev » Wed, 06 Oct 1999 04:00:00



> I am playing N3, just not much.  I expect
>I'll enjoy NL more.

Hate to break this to you, but NL is exactly the same as N3 with a
different menu system and car bodys. Everything else is exactly like
N3.

- James Wohlever

Techware Motorsports
http://techware.4mg.com/

Keepe

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Keepe » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00


>> I am playing N3, just not much.  I expect
>>I'll enjoy NL more.
>Hate to break this to you, but NL is exactly the same as N3 with a
>different menu system and car bodys. Everything else is exactly like
>N3.

yes, so I've seen.  How terribly disappointing, and a step backward.
Papyrus already has programming that allows things like the player
car to have a pit stall at random locations, and stop-and-go penalties
for shortcutting the track rather than a walled-up circuit, and local
yellows on a road course -- not to mention an excellent physics model.
It seems ridiculous to have made NASCAR Legends out of NASCAR Racing 2
rather than out of GPL.

And looking at screen shots -- what's with all the N3 smoke?  Bias-ply
tires didn't create huge walls of smoke like the radials do, as I recall.
This is another thing that they could have done from GPL; its tire smoke
is much more like what the stock cars made before the switch to radials
about 10 years ago: smoke comes sooner, but never as thick.

GPL may have been a commercial failure, but that doesn't mean all of
its good points should be ignored!  (Though frankly, at my store, GPL
sold more than most racing games, and I get a lot of customers talking
to me about racing games (OK, I approach them when I see 'em looking
at the racing section or the steering wheels) who say their favorite
is GPL.)

Makes one wonder if GPL will be the last sim, if nobody will want
to make something so realistic that your average Quake player can't
get into it...  By comparison, everything else will be a game.  Kinda
like European Air War in the terms of combat flight sims.  People got
fed up with how difficult the planes were to fly or how easy they were
to spin, yet by all accounts it's actually the most realistic sim made
to date ... and it hasn't been a tremendous success either.

--

http://www2.cruzio.com/~keeper/toons.html - Animaniacs, P&TB, F!, etc. files
http://www.armory.com/~keeper/midi.html - My own MIDI files - Updated 5 Dec.

Dave Cas

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Dave Cas » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I don't!!!  Them bastards are ruthless.  I don't know how many times I've been
squeezed into the wall by the nutcase in the black 3.  Who it that anyway??

Dave Casey
Casey94 (TEN)

j..

N3: don't understand some rules!

by j.. » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00



>I don't!!!  Them bastards are ruthless.  I don't know how many times I've been
>squeezed into the wall by the nutcase in the black 3.  Who it that anyway??

*** Dale!   :)
The Du

N3: don't understand some rules!

by The Du » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

LOL, then the AI must be very realistic.  Just wait till "*** Dale" punts you
in the bumper going 10 mph faster than you...<g>  

-The Dude?
Check out The Dude's radio show on 90.9 FM Indianapolis, B91.

Greg Cisk

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Greg Cisk » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00


>>BTW, besides this behaviour, I really love the AI in N3.

>I don't!!!  Them bastards are ruthless.  I don't know how many times I've
been
>squeezed into the wall by the nutcase in the black 3.  Who it that anyway??

Hey, welcome to the party pal :-)

--

Header address intentionally scrambled to ward off the spamming hordes.

cisko [AT] ix [DOT] netcom [DOT] com

Cib

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Cib » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

I am your "average" Quake player, but I also love GPL and N3.  I think
you are underestimating people just because they choose to play a
variety of different games.  The problem that I think GPL had was that
people weren't willing to jump into the trainer cars and learn the
tracks and learn to drive from them.  Everyone wants to jump straight
into the Ferrari or the Lotus GP cars and be great right away.  I
think an easier interface that allowed the picking of a field of F3
cars inside the game itself might have helped a bit.  Just some
thoughts!   : )

Thanks,
Cibb

>Makes one wonder if GPL will be the last sim, if nobody will want
>to make something so realistic that your average Quake player can't
>get into it...  By comparison, everything else will be a game.  Kinda
>like European Air War in the terms of combat flight sims.  People got
>fed up with how difficult the planes were to fly or how easy they were
>to spin, yet by all accounts it's actually the most realistic sim made
>to date ... and it hasn't been a tremendous success either.

>--

>http://www2.cruzio.com/~keeper/toons.html - Animaniacs, P&TB, F!, etc. files
>http://www.armory.com/~keeper/midi.html - My own MIDI files - Updated 5 Dec.

Zoll

N3: don't understand some rules!

by Zoll » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

Isn't the handling of the cars different?
I mean: 1970 versus 1999???

TIA
Zolli

James Wohlev

N3: don't understand some rules!

by James Wohlev » Thu, 07 Oct 1999 04:00:00

On Wed, 6 Oct 1999 01:42:47 +0200, "Zolli"


>>Hate to break this to you, but NL is exactly the same as N3 with a
>>different menu system and car bodys. Everything else is exactly like
>>N3.

>Isn't the handling of the cars different?
>I mean: 1970 versus 1999???

A little. Little more under steer and the cars feel heavier.. but
that's about it.

- James Wohlever

Techware Motorsports
http://techware.4mg.com/


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