rec.autos.simulators

With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this
question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

Overclocking is running a CPU or video logic chip <3dfx -rendition- matrox
etc >
higher than its default clock speed <mhz> by the use of software or in the
cpu's case on some
motherboards jumpers .

either way its a risk - especially with video cards I fail to see the logic
in it although im sure you'll see a ton of responses otherwise to my
statement - a lot of extra heat and in some cases a cooling fan requirement
in the
video cards case for at most 2-3 fps and more often less- The CPU
overclocking is another often misused item many over clock looking for a
higher speed <ie: pII- 300 to PII- 450 > but dont realize that if you can
use
a higher BUS speed you get a better performance gain without having to
overheat the CPU as bad .

With all this talk of overclocking it just makes me have to ask this
question. What exactly is overclocking? And is it easy to do?

Exactly I couldn't agree more

Of course I'm asking for it now

Blayne

so how do u chang the bus speed
ps would overclocking improve my system
p2 233
64mb
voodoo 2
riva 128
i intend to chang the cpu in abou 6 months , could overclocking reduce the
life of my cpu to that sort of time ?

 O.K. , before this turns in to a debate about the value of over
clocking. The info that you want can be found here
-------->http://www.tomshardware.com/
    I use a P166 overclocked to 225mhz and a mildly over clocked
Rendition Vid card. If I were to leave the CPU at the factory rated
clock speed I would be unable to run certain games (GPL, Quake2 for
example). I've made no special modifications for cooling and have had
no heat related problems. It works for me. For some people it doesn't
.If you are satisfied with the performance of you current system,
leave it alone.

Here's a good newsgroup for you, if you want to learn about
overclocking:

alt.comp.hardware.overclocking

I picked up a lot of info there, and successfully overclocked my Celeron
300A to 450.  It made a BIG difference in GPL.

Check it out...

Here's a good newsgroup for you, if you want to learn about
overclocking:

alt.comp.hardware.overclocking

I picked up a lot of info there, and successfully overclocked my Celeron
300A to 450.  It made a BIG difference in GPL.

Check it out...

   In the CPU case you cite, it's *Celerons* (not PIIs) being
overclocked from 300 to 450 MHz.  And this *is* done by overclocking
the bus.  It's the *only* way to overclock Celerons (since the CPU is
*locked* at 4.5x bus speed [in the case of the 300]).  Do you have
*any* idea what you're talking about?  And why do I keep typing these
*asterisks*?...  ;)

   Another contender for the "font of misinformation" title.  :)

   Actually, 450 MHz is the best way to OC the Celeron 300A, IMHO,
since you run the CPU at a high (but stable) speed, the memory at
100MHz (stable for PC100 memory), and the PCI/AGP bus at 66 MHz, so
you don't risk data loss.  YMMV.  From a happy Celeron 300A/450A
user...

NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

Jeff I speak in general about the CPU issue as we all know
that different system configurations yield different results .
I didnt list the celeron outright I listed the P2 for the very reason you
mention
I dont have experience with the celeron and I do know certain p2 chips sold
as 300's can actually be overclocked to 450 with no problems .

Take a look at the post I was responding to and you will see why I didnt
blow the guy away
with statistics . He was asking a general overclocking question , to be
exact he asked
WHAT overclocking was - If he had said "I have a celeron chip " I wouldn't
have touched it .

Save your negative posts for the alt.lookingfora***. newsgroup

You will also notice that I was more critical of video card overclocking -
you deal with risks-vs- gains   and the overclocking of video cards in
GENERAL
yields little for the risk involved .

I speak from having had Trident -Rendition<1000 & 2000 series>  -voodoo &
voodoo 2 chip card s
and have tried various methods of performance enhancing on all . I speak
from experience there sir .

   In the CPU case you cite, it's *Celerons* (not PIIs) being
overclocked from 300 to 450 MHz.  And this *is* done by overclocking
the bus.  It's the *only* way to overclock Celerons (since the CPU is
*locked* at 4.5x bus speed [in the case of the 300]).  Do you have
*any* idea what you're talking about?  And why do I keep typing these
*asterisks*?...  ;)

   Another contender for the "font of misinformation" title.  :)

   Actually, 450 MHz is the best way to OC the Celeron 300A, IMHO,
since you run the CPU at a high (but stable) speed, the memory at
100MHz (stable for PC100 memory), and the PCI/AGP bus at 66 MHz, so
you don't risk data loss.  YMMV.  From a happy Celeron 300A/450A
user...

NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

Please don't bite me, I'm a complete newbie at this overclocking
stuff.  I'm just happy my computer runs at all.  As suggested, I will
check out what's being posted in alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.

But please do explain to me, if overclocking results in such a
significant speed increase for your computer without risk of serious
harm to the hardware, why don't they come overclocked that way
directly from the manufacturer?

What's the catch?

        -Ferdinand-

   In the case of the Celerons, Intel used Pentium II cores that were
rated at a significantly higher speed than was required.  Why?  Hard
to say, but probably it simply was the cheapest and most available
parts for them to use.  Sometimes we consumers get lucky.  :)

   Overclocking usually doesn't result in such a big increase.
Typically, overclocking only one or two notches above the rated speed
is possible (sometimes not even that).  This Celeron thing is a bit of
an anomaly.  But it seems 75-90% (depending on who you believe) of the
Celeron 300As can be overclocked to 450 MHz.

   Why aren't they rated at that level?  First, Intel doesn't sell
Celeron 450s (yet :), so it would be a new model to support.  If they
did sell them, they would have to be rock-solid reliable at 450 MHz,
not "4 out of 5 times it'll work".  Chips are often tested to slightly
higher speeds, then rated at a lower speed, to ensure stability.

   As far as risk, yes, there is some.  First, you are voiding any
warranty by overclocking (whether the manufacturer or vendor would
*know* you did so is another issue).  Second, overclocking generates
more heat, which can lead to software errors or hardware failure (in
extreme cases).  Overclocking the 300A to 450 sometimes requires
higher voltage, adding more heat.  Third, in the long-term,
electro-migration can damage the CPU, but that's on the order of
years, generally not a problem.

   As far as managing the risk, be on the look-out for system lockups,
which can be a sign of CPU distress.  Monitor your hardware (the Abit
BH6 motherboard and the Motherbaord Monitor software can allow you to
monitor case temperature and set alarms if it becomes excessive).  The
Celerons seem to be pretty happy with their standard fan/heat sink
combo, but some people invest in additional cooling (try the 3dfxCool
web site).  Be prudent -- I only overclock when I need it for GPL
online racing and I run at a lowly 300 MHz the rest of the time.

   Hope that answers some of your questions.  Check Tom's Hardware,
Anand Tech, and some of the other Celeron & general hardware &
overclocking sites for more info.  You pretty much have to build your
own PC (or have a friend do it for you) to get the right parts, but
its something that can be learned on the 'net.

NAR Northeast Regional Contest Board site - points and more...

Marketing, plus the chips in some cases might not run at that higher speed
quite reliably in all situations. The overclocking newsgroups and sites
describe the (market) mechanisms behind this. The Celeron 300A working at
450 in almost all cases is pretty much an exception. (I mean the fact that
almost all C300A:s work at 450).

--
Anssi Lehtinen

The manufacturers would rather sell you faster cpus for more money
(whiich are basically the same cpu's at higher busspeeds or using
higher multipliers).

The manufacturers also have very strict standards which their cpu,s
should meet, if a cpu fails on even a small part of the testing
procedure, it will be sold as a slower cpu, even if to all intents
and purposes it will actually run fine at a higher speed. This
ensures the manufacturers sell very stable cpu's.

8-)

*Peter*   #:-)

Overclocking the system bus *is* overclocking the processor, and has all the
same heat-associated risks as increasing the CPU multiplier beyond
specification.  Further, overclocking the system bus in most (not all)
systems also overclocks PCI and AGP devices (like video cards, etc.), which
in turn will likely increase heat generated by such devices (or they may not
even function properly).  That said, the underlying statement that
increasing the bus speed provides better performance vs. increasing the CPU
multiplier is true in the majority (not all) cases; it depends upon system
application.

The heat delta generated in an overclocked system varies, with many
dependant (What processor and motherboard/chipset combination are you
overclocking?) and independent variables (How's the airflow in the case?  Do
you have ribbon cables blocking airflow, and limiting heat dissipation?).
Yes, in many (not all) configurations an additional case fan (or two) may be
required to bring heat dissipation (sp?) levels back within spec.

--
Philip M. D'Amato

"You can observe a lot just by watchin'"
--The Inimitable Yogi Berra

Through BIOS settings, jumpers, or DIP switches - depending upon your
motherboard.

If your system can be overclocked (it's not guaranteed to work), you could
start by going to 266Mhz.  You need to understand the two factors that
determine your processor speed: system bus speed and the CPU multiplier.  A
P2 233 runs at 66Mhz on the system bus with a CPU multiplier of 3.5 (66 x
3.5 = 233).  Depending upon your motherboard and processor, you could start
slowly be adjusting your CPU multiplier to 4.0, yielding 266 Mhz.
Alternately, you could (starting slowly) increase your system bus to 75Mhz
(probably do-able), yielding 75 x 3.5 = 266 (increasing the system bus
usually yields better real-life performance, but also increases the clock on
everything attached to the system bus, e.g., PCI devices, etc.).  More
information is available elsewhere, but this is a start.  Finally, you
should realize that performance comes at a price, and may damage your system
components.  Search the Web and look for overclocking newsgroups to gather
more information to weigh the risks vs. benefits.

Intel's heat and voltage specifications!  I've been fortunate).

Assuming you don't blow your system, overclocking doesn't 'shorten the life
of the CPU' in terms you're thinking of.  What I mean is, systems running at
higher and higher frequencies (Mhz) will experience circuit degradation as a
result of what is essentially erosion of the electrical conduits.  The
question is whether this degradation is an issue over the *useful* life of
the processor/motherboard/etc.  Useful life of a processor defined here as
the length of time before you upgrade or buy a new system.  Six months
sounds like a pretty short time (in terms of the degradation I describe)
before your next upgrade, and unless you try to run your 233 at stupid
rates, I don't think this is an issue.

Philip M. D'Amato

"You can observe a lot just by watchin'"
--The Inimitable Yogi Berra