rec.autos.simulators

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Hi,

Anyone know more about this?

Was watching the GP hock yesterday...
lovely race for a change...

Now at a certain point that idiot person who walked onto the circuit
caused a safety car situation...
While that was ahppening the TV commentator said something about there
being plans to shorten the hockenheim circuit cause security couldn't
keep up...with all the woods and such....
SHORTEN hockenheim?!!!!....are they like..completly and utterly mad?!!
So many circuits have allready been wrecked by the safety idiots, and
now hockenheim will be castrated....?..anyone know more about these
plans?

The safety idiocy has gone far enough...
Imola was***d after senna died there, i was a huge senna fan....but
geez...people die driving at speeds like this...doesn't happen often
thank God but the risk is there...
Say all you want about the americans, they are focussed  on safety
aswell ..but at least they seem to be able to see it in perpective if
a driver dies...it's sad but it happens...they don't start putting
chicanes in their ovals..VBG.

I've been a F1 fan for about 17 years now..and with horror watched the
" chicane mania" developing...and the wussy drivers surfacing..
Soon all we'll have is chicanes and more chicanes....and a bunch of
wuss drivers complaining that 'weeeeeeehhh...the other guy was 1 meter
behind me at the straight...that's dangerous..i want my
maaaaaammmmyyy.'
For years now i've been living in fear eau rouge will soon be
'altered' aswell....wouldn't be suprised if it happened..

Anyways.....to that little focking troll eccelstone...stop castrating
the circuits you little annoying piece of shit...

Needed to get that of my chest...

cheers,
Willem.

Hi,

Anyone know more about this?

Was watching the GP hock yesterday...
lovely race for a change...

Now at a certain point that idiot person who walked onto the circuit
caused a safety car situation...
While that was ahppening the TV commentator said something about there
being plans to shorten the hockenheim circuit cause security couldn't
keep up...with all the woods and such....
SHORTEN hockenheim?!!!!....are they like..completly and utterly mad?!!
So many circuits have allready been wrecked by the safety idiots, and
now hockenheim will be castrated....?..anyone know more about these
plans?

The safety idiocy has gone far enough...
Imola was***d after senna died there, i was a huge senna fan....but
geez...people die driving at speeds like this...doesn't happen often
thank God but the risk is there...
Say all you want about the americans, they are focussed  on safety
aswell ..but at least they seem to be able to see it in perpective if
a driver dies...it's sad but it happens...they don't start putting
chicanes in their ovals..VBG.

I've been a F1 fan for about 17 years now..and with horror watched the
" chicane mania" developing...and the wussy drivers surfacing..
Soon all we'll have is chicanes and more chicanes....and a bunch of
wuss drivers complaining that 'weeeeeeehhh...the other guy was 1 meter
behind me at the straight...that's dangerous..i want my
maaaaaammmmyyy.'
For years now i've been living in fear eau rouge will soon be
'altered' aswell....wouldn't be suprised if it happened..

Anyways.....to that little focking troll eccelstone...stop castrating
the circuits you little annoying piece of shit...

Needed to get that of my chest...

cheers,
Willem.

: Hi,

: Anyone know more about this?

: Was watching the GP hock yesterday...
: lovely race for a change...

: Now at a certain point that idiot person who walked onto the circuit
: caused a safety car situation...
: While that was ahppening the TV commentator said something about there
: being plans to shorten the hockenheim circuit cause security couldn't
: keep up...with all the woods and such....

  Well come on - Hockenheim is mostly a pretty tedious circuit - it's
needed SOMETHING doing to it for a while.  Those long straights don't
exactly make for interesting racing or a great contest of driver skill -
if I want to watch people blast along straights I'll go to a drag strip.

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
     UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

In the Autosport magazine (see www.autosport.com), there has been a story.

I do agree with you. E&M (Ecclestone and Mosley) have been truning GP racing
into only a money making machine. Before they took over and established
their dictatorial reign F1 was a real sport. Now it's a circus.

- Only VIPs that don't see the diffence between a Minardi and a McLaren
(such as Hakkinen's chick) are allowed in the paddoc, not the true fans
- Circuis have been mutilated in order to make things safe although recent
crashes have shown that the cars are safe enough to do without an excess of
speed-limiting measures.
- Some of the most interesting circuits have dissappeared because they
weren't profitable to Eccle$tone, such as Zandvoort, Paul Ricard, Mexico,
Kyalami
- Grids have been cutted to 22 cars; 10 years ago about 35-40 cars would
enter a grandprix
- Regulations are made to discourage overtaking (Mosley: "Excessive
Overtaking is too confusing for the average audience")
- The difference between the have's and the have-not's has grown out of
proprortions. 4 cars race for victory, 18 race for 5th
- Over the last 20 years, all non-championship races have dissappeared

I really hope that the CART races in Britain and germany will be a huge
succes ant that CART will pass F1 as the top-openwheeled series. I realise
that the racing cannot be as it was in the 60s and 70s, but I think it can
be close, competitive racing on challenging circuits with teams and drivers
that are accessible. Just like CART.

grtngs,
hgrm

Did you watch the GP yesterday???

Andrew.

:>  Well come on - Hockenheim is mostly a pretty tedious circuit - it's
:>needed SOMETHING doing to it for a while.  Those long straights don't
:>exactly make for interesting racing or a great contest of driver skill -
:>if I want to watch people blast along straights I'll go to a drag strip.
:>
: Did you watch the GP yesterday???

  Indeed - but it wasn't exciting coz of the massive straights now was
it?  Normally Hockenheim is a pretty boring race.

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
     UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

Huh? Zandvoort was unsafe, Paul Ricard is a few chicanes and one freeway in the
middle of nowhere, Herman Rodriguez has been torn down after it became too worn
out to race on and Kyalami is just too remote and doesn't attract enough
spectators.

Most of them couldn't even make a decent lap in prequal let alone finish a race.

Hockenheim usually is on my list of dull races - where cars qualify in
performance order and then just go away from each other on those long
straights.

Chuck in a bit of weather and a mixed up grid and at least they can
overtake.

Even then they need pretty well the whole straight to get alongside which
makes for exciting passes in the braking zones.

Without the safety car & rain Rubens got from 18th to 3rd, and that wasn't
simply driving by on the straight bits - most were quality passes under
braking. Where else could we have seen that this year? It certainly won't be
repeated at Hungary!

F1 just need to work out how to engineer mixed up grids :-)

Tony

"Richard G Clegg" wrote

: Hockenheim usually is on my list of dull races - where cars qualify in
: performance order and then just go away from each other on those long
: straights.

  Indeed.
: Without the safety car & rain Rubens got from 18th to 3rd, and that wasn't
: simply driving by on the straight bits - most were quality passes under
: braking. Where else could we have seen that this year? It certainly won't be
: repeated at Hungary!

  Hungary hashad some exciting races in recent years.  I prefer the
"mickey mouse" circuits to boring straights like 80% of Hockenheim.
Where's the driver skill in just pushing the accelerator?

  Not to say it wasn't a fine drive by Rubinho of course

: F1 just need to work out how to engineer mixed up grids :-)

  (Grin)

--
Richard G. Clegg       Only the mind is waving
    Networks and Non-Linear Dynamics Group
      Dept. of Mathematics, Uni. of York
     UPDATED WWW: http://manor.york.ac.uk/

Didn't they castrate it by adding the awfull chicanes in 1970 or so??
The last few years they made the Senna chicane even narrower.
I think it should be possible to keep the character of the tracks and still
shorten it.
I just hope they keep it a fast track.
I hope they add a high speed corner at the curent Jim Clark chicane.

You have to admit that the Ostcurve was destroyed many years ago, right now
its the most ugly chicane of all.

Im not against changing the track.

I think a lot of it has to do with taste...
Can't say i'm a huge fan of hockenheim as it is now...

But it's the principle of changing circuits...just so it's 'safer'
silverstone had it's balls removed by them 2 chicanes...
imola had it's balls removed by another 2 or 3 chicanes...
List goes on...

willem

I believe some of the reasons it may be shortened is that 1) spectators
rarely see the cars as the vast majority of scectators is in the
start/finish-section and 2) the EcclestoneMoneyMaking-machine needs more
cash, so they thought this up: the shorter the track, the more often the
cars will pass start/finish AND THE AD-BOARDS!!!!

Jeez, dim-wits... why don't they start racing on half-mile ovals?!!?!!!

Zandvoort unsafe????  Maybe some runn-offs should be added or some barriers
should be moved, but it was certainly not less safe than the average
circuit.
About Paul Ricard: it was liked by the driver (although it was not of the
calibre of Rouen, Clermont-Ferrant or Reims. Now it is replaced by a another
circuit in the middle of nowhere with no straights, no athmosphere and which
dravers dislike.
Herman Rodriguez had a perfect combination of aa faat part and a technical
infield. It could easily have been saved if Eccle$tone had put in some of
his millions.
And racing in South Africa was always popular. In the 60s and 70s, in
december/januari, the whole F1 went to South Africa for soem
non-championship race, and the RSA-GP because it was so populair there. And
it is alot less remote than Sepang

race.

In 1990 there were 40 cars entered, maybe 4 or 8 were not raceworthy (Andrea
Moda, Life etc) . The other worst of the other 32 or 36 were not worse than
Prost or Minardi are today. In those day's the middfield was so compatitive
that a driver could score point in one race but fail to qualify the next.

grtngs,
hgrm

With proper aerodynamic rules, long straights provide slipstreaming and
overtaking. If you don't believe me, read a report of a Grandprix in Monza
from the 50s, 60s or 70s. In 1971, Peter Gethin won a race-long
slipstream-battle with only 0,01 secs.

grtngs,
hgrm

Random lottery.  I mean, you don't get a championship point for pole position,
so why not?

Eldred
--
Tiger Stadium R.I.P. 1912-1999
Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett
GPL hcp. +59.33

Never argue with an idiot.  He brings you down to his level, then beats you
with experience...
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