rec.autos.simulators

        Thanks

        Johnny

You'll get a ton of replies telling you that FF is the only way to fly.
Personally, I tried it for a while with a LWFF and didn't really care for
it. About the time the Momo's came out a year or two ago I was at a
crossroads as I didn't like the LWFF with or without the FF so I went with a
non-FF wheel, from Thomas. Best move I ever made. I can drive a lot smoother
with it and am not constantly fighting the phoney feeling forces found in
the FF effects today. Even with the FF turned back a little it was still
phoney feeling to me, but then again I have done some high performance
driving and know what is in the game/wheel, is not really what you feel out
on the road.

I decided that no feel was better than fake feel and took real-smoothness
over psuedo-realism in order to take my online driving to the next level,
and it worked. I'd recommend a Thomas wheel if you can swing it. You'll see
that FF is not required to do well and really isn't required to get any more
enjoyment out of the sim.

btw lfs is the ONLY driving sim

Tin hats on!

Yes I think the momo is a good FF wheel

Pretty horrid IMHO and makes a lot of noise.

Personally I don't like FF. It has never conveyed the seat of the pants
feel for me, but it seems to work for some. I find it an artifical feeling
as if the computer is driving for me. Don't tell the wife though cos she
bought me the Momo as a present :)

Maybe my brain has been trained over the years to use graphics and audio in
sim racing so that FF is something new for me to get used to (old dogs new
tricks yeh yeh) but it doesn't add a "wow this feels like a real car"
feeling.

Though my recollection of competitive driving was in an old Avenger...

Cheers
Tony

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ROFL, and not even a GT ?

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--

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In NR2003, LFS, NetKar, Everything I have used it on, I have my "joy/wheel
profiler in the control panel with FF at low, no return to center.  in games
such mentioned above if return to center is on, then it overrides the camber
castor effects of steering, all you feel then is "bumps"  but in NR02-03,
GPL & NetKar I feel as wheels are off the ground, or have reached and
surpassed thier grip limit, or that a slide has began, because the wheel now
is clear to show resistance in coming back to center, like it would just as
a real car...

MS FF wheels are neat IMHO.  I havent gotten to see the momo in action, but
once properly setup and supported by the games, there is no going back.

MS FF with FF turned off was my orignal intention as I hated the centering
spring (mechanical) in the NON FF versions.

It really is a personal preference thing which is why it is so hard to
advise. Perhaps for someone with less experience of non FF coming into it
they would find it more natural.

Cheers
Tony

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I don't think it's a gimmick, I find it a useful aid. Can you give some sort
of indication of just how hard you have 'pushed it'?

I have a BRD wheel as well as a Momo Force. I'm just about as fast with the
BRD wheel, but I find it's easier to drive with FF, and that means I'm less
likely to make a mistake.

Malc.
GPLRank -51.9

I had pretty much the same experience with the original red Logitech, the
only FF wheel I've sampled (w/GPL, Viper Racing, & Nascar Heat at the time).
Tried ALL the settings various folks said were best, along with lots of my
own variations.  I did appreciate the information the FF was trying to
convey, but it never stopped feeling like a computer peripheral to me, and
that reduced the immersion factor of "driving".  I went back to my tried and
true, a modified 270 degree-lock non FF original Logitech with stouter
springs.  ***y thing works your arms out, but it does keep you from sawing
at the wheel like a maniac. ;-)  And it's transparent; I never think about
something it's doing and wonder what that's supposed to be.

Actually, the only time I ever made it flat through Masta in GPL was when I
was trying out a joystick/pedal setup, since you could make lock-to-lock
corrections almost instantaneously.  But I really don't care if my laps are
quicker or not; that wasn't realistic and I just want to get "into" driving.
Anything that reduces the immersion for me is a no-go.

I can imagine better modeling of tire grip and particularly wear might well
make FF a truly needful thing in the near future (if not already, arguably).
But for now it remains personal preference for me - and I prefer no, thanks.

SB

When was the last time you tried FF?  Steering effort definitely changes
with tire grip in both F1C and NR2003.  In both, you can feel the front end
wash out, and IMHO, F1C out of the box is much better than F12002 with
respect to shaking over bumps in that it isn't as exagerrated.  NR2003 also
has pretty good FF.  I can actually feel the loss of grip as the tires wear
in that the steering effort noticably drops off, and running over curbs at
Watkins Glen results in a subtle but detectable change, not banging and
rattling.

I don't find either game to be anywhere near the ridiculous sawing found in
the arcades, and when I turn off FF, I feel disconnected from what's taking
place on the screen.  Granted, I don't think it's possible for current FF
wheels to fully simulate the real thing.  For one, we probably need the
ability to take the user's input into consideration when determining forces,
but it's certainly good enough to increase the immersion factor.  Besides, I
don't think anyone really believes any of these games(!) are even close to
the real experience.  Anyway, as they say, to each his own.

Alan

I'd have to agree with that.  F1C, N2003 & Netkar each feel more drivable
with FF than without it to me.  I'm still not sure whether I prefer it on or
off in GPL.  I used to always turn it off until someone gave me some config
tips which allowed me to actually feel the front-end grip while right-foot
steering.  I still get the occasional spike in GPL which can ruin an online
race for me so I have to have the FF strength turned down quite a bit to
cope with it.  For what it's worth, my times are slightly quicker with FF
turned on in GPL even though overall I'd say it feels a bit 'fake'

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy
"goyl at nettx dot no"

http://www.theuspits.com

"A man is only as old as the woman he feels........"
--Groucho Marx--