rec.autos.simulators

     krammer and Co.s present attitude is simply a disgrace.  As others have stated their parting gift to the sim racing community was the T/A physics contained within the Nascar 2003 exe.  To me, that's a gift freely given. Nothing was said when the Truck mod or the Aero mod were released. Nothing was said when new tracks were made. Nothing was said about creating new and accurate paint schemes. Now it seems that Mr. Krammer finds any modifications to his nas 2003 exe a violation of the North American Copywrite laws.  

     I would caution Mr. Krammer to reconsider the continued slapping of the hands that will feed him. As he and his partners may very well find a rapidly shrinking market for their product, or barely no market at all.

If FIRST's intended market is professional racing outfits looking for
simulation software, then pissing off a load of gamers isn't going to make
anybody's commercial decisions any harder to make.

cheers
John

It just makes the comments on their (rather poor) website about working with
the sim community a bit thin. If they come up with the goods I am sure they
will be "forgiven" by most racing simmers.

It does seem as if they have been really busy and the whole internet thing
took off without them knowing. Sensitive to public forums (people can be
quite *** there you know!), attempting to close down the distribution of
tools on websites (there are whole copies of their games available
underground) and finally having a website that looks like it was knocked up
down the pub...

And since EA has proven more or less that it cant step in to fill formerly
Papy's shoes, how much can you argue that there could be a profit in the
future?

I do ask this, if your sister asked you to quit callin her a 'ho' in public,
would you?  Why would this "supporter" refuse to do quit doing something he
was asked to not do anymore?

I mean gee-mah-nee, they asked everyone to please quit, then cease and
decist?  Then one guy says "no way, I think it is free to do what I please
with" and then threatens to publish the code, ooopsy?  Come on, what did you
expect someone who 'purchased' the rights, to do?  Kinda like holding a gun
to someone's head to make them give you what you want?  Ok, Maybe they
(first) didnt say 'pretty please' enough?

Tony Rickard enlightened us with:

Having had years of use out of Kaemmer's work supplemented by the modding
community it does seem something of a dilemma when the two groups that have
provided such entertainment are going against each other. Although as the
facts are coming out it would appear TM is actively encouraging the action.

The initial question was over whether the mods would harm FIRST which was
open to some debate. The debate ends when the action taken is as you
describe.

I still think plastering it on their brand website which still hasn't got
any concrete product info isn't the best thing to do. I understand they want
to make a stand but I would have thought that best left with the lawyers and
issue a simple press release to that effect IMHO.

Cheers
Tony

Except that Tim never said he'll do what he pleases.  He made an offer
to pull the mods, and did, but First demanded that he jump through
various other hoops, which he was unwilling to do (because in several
cases they were unreasonable or unenforceable).

All I can say about what you posted is "OH."   Good point.  I think I quit
reading too soon, as i now saw the part where they asked him to cough up 5
grand?  jebus...

John DiFool enlightened us with:

I didnt do diligent attention to detail, give em hell Tim, this is
outrageous IMHO.

Plowboy enlightened us with:

Well, DK calling mod makers hackers and thieves didn't go down too well and
predates any public*** waggling by Tim McA, and that's not even
mentioning the train related brain-wrongs.

cheers
John

I thought it went :

emails and cease and desists asking modders to cease and desist.

modders mostly comply, with redline going so far as to get a license to do
it properly.

Tim comes out and says "you cant stop me"

RSC gets inundated with guys thinking that Tim in the new messiah.

FIRST issue press release telling community why they issued the Cease and
Desist notices.

Tim still says "you cant stop me"

so now a judge will.

pez

http://www.tmcarthur.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52

[First post]

 As of yesterday tho it looks like both sides agreed that Tim would
not be distributing any code or physics unlockers:

http://www.tmcarthur.net/temp/FIRST_3-28-05.pdf

Tim phoned FIRST after the whole debacle had started, with modders having
had contact from FIRST asking them to stop. This is the extra detail that
you may be missing :

FIRST issues out its warning to modders to stop, then FIRST, upon getting
bad press from the modders, issues its statement on its web site.

Tim stated over at RSC that he thought they were wrong.

Then he phoned them.

What was said in that conversation is between Tim and FIRST, although from
that phone call stemmed FIRSTs extended requests to Tim.

get my facts straight?

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=197145&page=5&pp=25

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So now Tim has signed a TRO, itll be interesting to see what happens next.

pez