rec.autos.simulators

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:16:01

>Dont misunderstand me. I like NR2003 (Cup/trucks anyway) just fine but IMO
>it's getting old and we don't have a bunch of other alternatives to EA if we
>want to run Nascar races. I seriously doubt Ill be driving NR2003 this time
>next year, at least I hope not ;) I just ran a few more laps in the
>Thunder04 demo and again I come away feeling like it's MUCH superior to
>NR2003 in everyway that 03 is lacking. The high line works great, the draft
>feel much more realistic than Papy's implememtation it looks much better and
>plain feels right. If you have a 2.5gig+/9700p/DSL type rig and get your
>wheel setup right it really is out-FN-standing. I dont say that lightly
>either. Believe me Im suprised to hear myself say that :) Once I get the
>full version Ill know better though.

Without continuing the comparison to N2003, I doubt you'll be
disappointed. It's a *much* better sim than last year. Aside from
physics/tracks/graphics/whatever, one legitimate complaint I have is
with the career mode balancing. The AI are slow as shit during races,
but outqualify their race times by considerable margins everywhere.
The career aspect is also seriously lacking in detail, as it consists
almost entirely of spending money to upgrade your car's hdv file (it's
not presented that way, but it's essentially how it works). Hopefully
for 2005 they'll get around to implementing the single player depth
that the Tiburion-produced console versions have.

Jason

by **Jason Moy** » Sat, 14 Feb 2004 16:26:24

> Oh, I don't know. I let myself decide, instead of letting others opinions
>do it for me <g>

I dunno, I thought the primary argument that was being made here was
realism, in which case I tend to value the opinions of people who do
it for a living. Consider that Dale Jr was paid to be the Thunder
2003 coverboy last year and ended up promoting a product competing
with it. For that matter, consider that he runs an entire website
dedicated to it: http://www.jrsraceplace.com/

I find that pretty condescending considering I buy every sim that
comes out and am typically one of the first people to post a review
here. I've easily spent $320 on ISI products alone over the past 6
years.

It's even weirder considering that the 2 sims I'm really looking
forward to this year are Richard Burns Rally and GTR, the latter of
which apparently contains a modified version of the ISI engine.

If my opinions were founded on some irrational loyalty to Papy, I
wouldn't waste my time and cash on any other sims. What I post here
is based purely on my feelings about what a sim does or doesn't bring
to the table, and in many cases isn't indicative of my overall opinion
anyway (i.e. as much as there is to hate about F1C, it's still one of
my favorite sims and one of the handful I have installed now).

Jason

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:58:13

Hehe, not directed at you Sean but I did use your machine as a reference :-)

> > Duron 700 users need not even try though :-)

> > Mitch

> Is that a shot at me Mitch? Huh? Huh? C'mon man let's go!! :-P

> Haha, yeah I tried the Demo some time ago and well, lets just say I could
> count seconds faster than frames. LOL

> Sean

by **Eldre** » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:57:21

>Youre not being fair. Im stuck running N2003 everyweek because thats the
>game that gets the play. Not much fun running with th AI or alone :)

Sure it is! At least I can turn down the AI and keep UP with them. That's
often more fun than watching human drivers disappear into the next zip code...

Eldred
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by **Larr** » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:09:00

I think it's called bumps. They're really there!

-Larry

by JP » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 14:11:41

> > Oh, I don't know. I let myself decide, instead of letting others
opinions
> >do it for me <g>

> I dunno, I thought the primary argument that was being made here was
> realism, in which case I tend to value the opinions of people who do
> it for a living. Consider that Dale Jr was paid to be the Thunder
> 2003 coverboy last year and ended up promoting a product competing
> with it. For that matter, consider that he runs an entire website
> dedicated to it: http://www.jrsraceplace.com/

> > Expand your horizons,

> I find that pretty condescending considering I buy every sim that
> comes out and am typically one of the first people to post a review
> here. I've easily spent $320 on ISI products alone over the past 6
> years.

> It's even weirder considering that the 2 sims I'm really looking
> forward to this year are Richard Burns Rally and GTR, the latter of
> which apparently contains a modified version of the ISI engine.

> If my opinions were founded on some irrational loyalty to Papy, I
> wouldn't waste my time and cash on any other sims. What I post here
> is based purely on my feelings about what a sim does or doesn't bring
> to the table, and in many cases isn't indicative of my overall opinion
> anyway (i.e. as much as there is to hate about F1C, it's still one of
> my favorite sims and one of the handful I have installed now).

> Jason

Or quite possibly your Jr. examples are because of the online difference.
I.e., the ISI stuff stinks online/LAN, where as the Papy stuff is better at
that, and I would bet he and his friends would rather race online/lan than
off, so why bother with the ISI stuff. Who knows.

Anyway, I was just agreeing with Mitch's point about Papy blinders. I'm
not one of those who thinks they're the only ones who know how to slice
bread <g>

by **ymenar** » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 15:01:20

> When in reality theyve just been conditioned to accept
> papy physics as the basis of reality instead REAL LIFE.

Care to explain why every Nascar driver that want to keep a sharp eye during
the week off races NR2003 instead of those EA games? Junior, etc..? Oh
wait they know nothing, I guess <G>

--
-- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Mitch_** » Sun, 15 Feb 2004 16:01:17

Youre snipping out of context. I think you been hangin around the wrong
crowd for so long youre starting to think the same way Madame Presidant ;)
It takes more than a "My daddy is bigger than yours" attitude to convince me
of anything.

The CURRENT online NASCAR experience is NR2003 (have I argued that before or
something?) and will be for awhile longer. Will it be next year or the year
after that? That's my point and all I'm saying is Thunder 2004 gets a MUCH
worse rap than it deserves IMO and I suggest everyone try it out just to see
for yourself. It does a few things better than NR03 and a few thing worse.
Actually suprised me at how good it was when I tried it is all.

Eventually the Thunder series (or even someone else) will overtake NR2003 in
looks and physics. My hope is that as a community we dont shut out the
EA/ISI guys based on NASCAR Revolution or we may just shut ourselves out of
PC Nascar sims completely if we don't support the PC version of Thunder at
some point (small community that we are).

Explained!

Mitch

> > When in reality theyve just been conditioned to accept
> > papy physics as the basis of reality instead REAL LIFE.

> Care to explain why every Nascar driver that want to keep a sharp eye
during
> the week off races NR2003 instead of those EA games? Junior, etc..? Oh
> wait they know nothing, I guess <G>

> --
> -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard>
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

by **Nic** » Tue, 17 Feb 2004 23:16:40

> <snip>

> When in reality theyve just been conditioned to accept papy physics as the
> basis of reality instead REAL LIFE.

> > Mitch

> Bingo. Nail/head.

On a slightly related topic - if your knowledge of F1 tracks stems
from the Grand Prix series, or EA's F1 series (or actually any F1 game
ever made), take a visit to a few tracks and prepare to be
surprised...

Oh, and if you've *ever* raced around a version of Brands Hatch in any
racing sim whatsoever, then you won't have a clue what it's like in
real life. Paddock Hill bend is one of the most famous corners in the
world, but I've never played a sim with an accurate representation of
just that one corner. Jeez, some of those sims could make it turn LEFT
and be more accurate...

rec.autos.simulators

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners

N2003 Talledega corners