rec.autos.simulators

For Michael Carver, Papyrus, & NROS developers

Jo

For Michael Carver, Papyrus, & NROS developers

by Jo » Thu, 27 Nov 1997 04:00:00


>There are two entirely separate issues here, so we need to be careful
>not to confuse the two. Basically the question is, is the sim
>playable, and delivering everything that was promised on the box? If
>not, we are entirely justified in asking for a patch, as happened with
>ICR2.

There are more than two issues I think. Support of hardware that has
become a defacto industry standard falls in between these two
extremes. By analogy imagine if games until a year ago still used the
ancient PC speaker/squaker. Real sound cards were just invented a year
ago, and now almost everyone has one. You've played other games with
real sound, and you love it - it's very hard to go back to games the
squaking. In this case you'd certainly want sound support in your
existing games - especially if 95% of other developers on the planet
have already updated/patched their games to support it.

Technically there is nothing *wrong* with the sim, and sound wasn't
promised - but once you've experienced it the game is not really
"playable" without it. That's very similar to the 3dfx situation.

Joe

John Walla

For Michael Carver, Papyrus, & NROS developers

by John Walla » Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:00:00



I've a 32 y.o. and a vatted malt (8, 12 and 21 blended) at the moment,
both of which are lovely. If I ever manage to drag myself over to E3
we'll need to arrange a huge meet and I'll bring some of this holy
water with me :)

Actually in my local whisky shop (Cadenheads in Edinburgh high street)
they have a bottle of Springbank from 1918. It's still "only" 32 years
old (since unlike wine whisky stops maturing after you take it out of
the barrel) but it's _very_ rare since there was almost no whisky made
at all that year due to the war. The price? A cool 10 thousand
pounds.... So who would drink that then?! :)

Cheers!
John

Jeff Vince

For Michael Carver, Papyrus, & NROS developers

by Jeff Vince » Fri, 28 Nov 1997 04:00:00


>There are more than two issues I think. Support of hardware that has
>become a defacto industry standard falls in between these two
>extremes. By analogy imagine if games until a year ago still used the
>ancient PC speaker/squaker. Real sound cards were just invented a year
>ago, and now almost everyone has one. You've played other games with
>real sound, and you love it - it's very hard to go back to games the
>squaking. In this case you'd certainly want sound support in your
>existing games - especially if 95% of other developers on the planet
>have already updated/patched their games to support it.

   Your scenario is missing a few details, though.  It turns out that
there are (at least) two competing "sound card" standards.  A year
ago, when they were introduced, both seemed quite viable.  Papyrus
made its commitment to one at least six months, and probably more like
a year, prior to that.  One standard has moved ahead of the rest in
the past six months or so (speaking in terms of support, not just
technology).  So what is Papyrus doing about it?

* N2, released almost a full year ago, is being patched, maybe by
Christmas.  

* SODA is also getting a patch (even though it did use the superior
sound card in an inferior manner [D3D]).  I think sales of SODA vs.
N2, as well as the interest in NROS, make it a no-brainer as to which
gets patched first.

* ICR2 has been a dead issue for over a year.  Get yourself a good
book for $20 and be happy.  ;)

* All future Papyrus releases are planned to use the new technology.

   Aside from getting Papyrus a subscription to the Psychic Friends
network, how would you have altered their decision making process in
the last two years?

   BTW, I made my choice (an Intergraph Reactor) 13 months ago and
have been quite happy with it (ICR2 & N2, to a lesser degree).  Only
now am I starting to see games (racing sims) that make me consider
3Dfx (CPR, GPL).

   Funny, I'd say the same thing about Rendition ICR2.  :)  


Before you send me UCE, I know what you're thinking...  Did he complain
to five or six postmasters last month?  Now, you must ask yourself one
question: "Do I feel lucky?"  Well, do you, punk?

David Rolan

For Michael Carver, Papyrus, & NROS developers

by David Rolan » Sun, 30 Nov 1997 04:00:00

I would just like to say that i really enjoy Papyrus products.....Hell I bought a pc and got off a mac after 10 or more
years just for nascar 2.  I love the track pack, and the game is just unbelievable...I would like to see Daytona, Indy, Las
Vegas, Homestead, Rio, Gateway for ICR2, an updated version of Atlanta, a new Darlington, and a Suzuka and Motegi Track,
but hey I can wait until the licensing stuff gets straightened out...  I loved playing nascar on my mac....I built a couple
of carsets for mac guys to use a 97 truck set and a 97 Busch Grand National Series for the mac guys to use, and I plan on
buying NASCAR 1 for pc, and buying another mac so I can enjoy Nascar for mac....
    My point is that we all know you just cant beat NASCAR 2 or ICR2....Both Products are easy to use....easy to setup, and
with the hope that the 3dfx patch comes out, I plan on buying a 3d card and getting rid of the junk one I got...  SODA is
ok, prolly would help if I was as into Dirt Racing as much as i am into NASCAR and ICR2.  Havent tried NROS yet, so I dont
know about it.....
These guys on here, Michael Carver.....man what a guy...   I have had a pc for a month, and question after question this
guy has answered for me without once saying no....I respect that....hes gotten me out of some jams.  For all the people who
gripe about Papyrus, what would happen if they went away?  We would have NASCAR 98 for pc, and I have the playstation
version and like to play it, but its no sim, and the tracks arent as realistic...I will buy whatever Papy comes out
with...  Grand Prix Legends sounds awesome and looks it too...
    I would also just like to say thanks to Dean from the CART Team....How many other developers come in here and bust
their ass to answer questions and help folks to set a game up(Just look at what it costs to call Microsoft for tech support
and Im sure you will appreciate him)....The way I look at it, CART PR is not as realistic as ICR2, but has some nice
features..... Sure the AI is not as good as ICR2, but hopefully the patch will fix this. Plus maybe later, A CPR 2 will
come out that is even better than the original

Folks thanks for all the help you have given me.  Not just talking about Michael and Papy and Dean, but everyone.   I have
made the transition from Mac to pc with very few problems, and its due to everyone here being so helpful...Thanks folks

Dave

John D. Courtn

For Michael Carver, Papyrus, & NROS developers

by John D. Courtn » Sun, 30 Nov 1997 04:00:00

Hi,
    I'am a former Mac user as well! (I still have my old LC sitting in
the corner).  I switched to the PC, over a year ago, I also discovered
r.a.s. at a about the same time!  The group is great and answers a lot
of my questions. (including who George Carlin is! :) ).  It's the
first place I turn to, to see which sims are good or bad.  I'am
waiting on buying MS CPR until I see what the reaction to the new
patch is on this group!  I think I am finally on a good news server so
I can read most of the posts (I'am getting around 100-120+ posts a
day, is this average?)

    Anyway, back to the Mac stuff!  Has anyone ever played a game
called Ferrari Grand Prix on the Mac?  I used to play this game all
the time!  It was my very first racing sim.  I remember the colour
version was 16 colour!  There were only 8 AI cars, but there were 50
levels of difficulty they could be set to, and if I remember the
gerage only had 2 settings (downforce, and gear ratios).  It did have
a track editor, I used to run F1 cars on short tracks!  Eventhough I
now have a PC the Mac is still a special computer to me, it was the
first computer I did programming on, it is also the first computer I
surfed the internet with.  I released my first software program on the
internet with it, (Tri-Point screen saver, try it! :-), I made it
because I didn't really want to buy a disk hoging comercial screen
saver, I only had 40MB HD space to work with back then!).  I'am
suprised I still get e-mail about it occasionally!  University hogs
all of my software development time these days! (and playing NASCAR 2!
:))

Later,
John

John

For Michael Carver, Papyrus, & NROS developers

by John » Mon, 01 Dec 1997 04:00:00

SNIP
not as realistic as ICR2, but has some nice
will fix this. Plus maybe later, A CPR 2 will

In what respects is CART PR not as realistic as ICR2? In what respects is it
more realistic than ICR2? I think by providing these answers Dean from CART
support will be able to better evaluate your feedback and incorporate
changes to the patch or future versions of the product.

Thanks
John


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