rec.autos.simulators

Hi guys

Hooked up my steering wheel again the other day for the first time in
about 5 months to do some racing in the TPTCC online series, but I have
a persistent, if periodic (now there's a combo :-) controller problem

Every so often, but not every time I drive, my car will suddenly jerk to
the right for no obvious reason

Sometimes this happens when I'm going straight ahead, sometimes it
happens when I'm turning slightly left and sometimes it seems to happen
when I'm applying the brakes....?

This started to happen the past couple of weeks before I took a break,
so I replaced the steering pot, but it didn't help

It calibrates really well, although sometimes I think I see a small
spike just to the right of center, but it doesn't happen all the time,
and today when I first fired up N3 to practice at Imola, it was
horrible, then I just quit and started again, it happened again on the
first lap, and then nothing for an hours worth of driving

This is driving me nuts as I never know when it will happen next

I don't think it's my PC either, as this has been totally rebuilt since
I last used my wheel, with only my trusty V5 being carried over

Win98SE, English edition
Direct X8, had 7 on the previous PC
All the latest drivers yadda yadda

Wheel is a homemade one, but uses wiring and pots from a Thrustmaster
Nascar PRO, pedals from Redline (Nigel Nichols for president)

I have tried to attach an old CH Flightsick I have to see if I can
provoke that same spike, but no luck, rock solid, so I'm thinking,
wheel.....somewhere ???

I used ALL the wiring from my old Nascar PRO, even those little
resistors or whatever it is that TM uses next to the pots, even replaced
it with a spare I had

Ok, talk to me guys :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits"    http://www.racesimcentral.net/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.racesimcentral.net/

You said new pots did not fix it?

What about the choices for controller drivers inside N3? Generic and Papy? I
seem to recall that one or the other worked better with generic joysticks (I
think it was generic...<g>)

How does the calibration routine look in Windows game controllers panel? Do
you see the same "persistent but periodic"<g> spikes?

Have you tried re-calibrating in both Windows and N3? Removing the device
from the "Game Controllers" window and re-adding it?

What kind of sound card are you using?

-/- Walk Walker

Hi Walk, long time no see

Yeppers

Correct

Hmm, haven't tried to switch, using Generic now I think

Yep ...... but it's harder to spot there

I've even rebuilt the whole dang PC since last time I used it, installed
Win98 from scratch on a new HD, and yes, I've added and removed this
controller a number of times, and I'm suspecting this is one of the
reasons I'm finding N4 to be a handful as well, I seem to spin out for
no reason every so often, but it N3 I'm confident enough in my driving
to know that it's not me

Give me an advanced physics model and I'm not so sure anymore :-)

SB Live Player 1024, my "old" one, which I replaced partly because of
this, was the original SB Live!

I think I've met your brother a couple of times, Johnny, right ? :-)

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke"
--Groucho Marx--

Jeff H

Assign a IRQ for the Sound Card, Modem, Nic, USB, and Video if you can.

Check your PCI IRQ map, some slots share IRQ's, Move your PCI cards around
to get different IRQ's.
Especially the sound card and modem or nic if you are on broadband.

The first attempt at doing this was to assign IRQ's and that helped some.
(would spastically appear sometimes)
Then I moved the Modem to a different slot and it seems to have almost
disappeared.
USB is disabled in motherboard bios, (unused). Modem shares PCI IRQ with
USB.

Of course this could all be CPU/Motherboard dependent.

My system:

retail box).
512mb Ram. Micron PC133
SoundBlaster Live X-Gamer.
GeFarce 2 Pro.
U.S. Robotics 56K Fax PCI modem.
Cheap LogiTech WingMan Joystick. (carpal tunnel syndrome on the Road
Course's) :(
CDRW burner.
Gobs of ATA 100 Hard Drive Space.
Sony 19" Trinitron Monitor.
WinME & IE 6.0.2600 with all updates weekly. Intellipoint 4.0 drivers.
All the software (virus) & bios updates, MS Scan-disked & Defragged weekly,
Back to DirectX 8.0a after a cleanup of beta DX 8.1 (expired), back to
Detonator 12.97 drivers, (I think, he he, tried out sooo.. many different
drivers, just got tired)

--
R.I.P. - William Joseph Dunlop OBE MBE  2/25/52 - 7/2/2000

http://www.roadracers.uk.com/legend.htm

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

This PC is used for Sim racing only, so it doesn't have anything extra
in there, a V5 card, a SB Live and a NIC, that's it, all cards spaced
out as far as possible, LPT, COM and USB all disabled, as well as the on
board audio, but I haven't actually assigned IRQ's to the different
cards, but looking at the device manager I can't see any IRQ sharing
going on, I'll give it a try though

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"The Pits"    http://www.theuspits.com/

* Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way *
"Spamkiller"    http://www.spamkiller.com

Gosh.....this is like a "needle in a haystack" problem.....but keeping
at it will get it solved.

Besides the many  good suggestions (some of which you've undoubtedly
tried already) here's what I'd add to the list of "possibilities"....

1.  When you reinstalled Win98SE.....did you forget to use the  "/p"
switch so that Windows ACPI would not be installed?  That's the only way
to turn it off (despite it looking like you can do that in the BIOS).
If you forgot....then you've got ACPI running and with Win98SE, DX 8.0
and SB Live....that's a formula for disaster....or at least....for a
erratic game input controllers.  I have been installing Win98SE without
ACPI now for close to a year.....and *all* software-based controller
problems with SB Live cards and TM or generic analogue controllers have
ended.  Period.  (We have 15 simulators in our rental fleet....so the
"sampling" is a significant experience).

2.  Nigel makes great products......(love his pedals)....but like anyone
or any equipment..."shit happens!"  You could have a wire rubbing in the
wheel somewhere....especially if you used that "thin as hell" TM
wire....and if it even gets close to a grounding situation...it will
cause the wheel-response you've described.  That could also account for
it being somewhat erratic and irregular in occurrence.

3.  Both the Generic and DX controller routines in N3 will calibrate
with a generic analogue wheel.  However, sometimes you  were required to
uninstall the controller in "Control Panel" and reinstall....in order
for the Papy Generic controller API to "see" your wheel.  That could be
the case....and if you can't get the Generic API to see the
wheel.....that's at least pointing you to the problem source!  From DX
7.0 on up....I always preferred the DX API in N3 though.

4.  I think you said you replaced the wheel pot?  But...did you replace
it with a good one?  A brand new pot can be bad (especially spiky...if
it has a bad winding).  Check the pot resolution and smoothness through
its entirety with an "ohm meter".....you can buy a handy little "credit
card" size ohm meter at Radio Shack for about $15 bucks....it will come
in handy many, many times as a dedicated sim racer!  You can also use
this little "tool" to set the throttle and brake pot resolution to
maximum (the factory never does it right....at least not TM's)....and
that can shave a lot of 10ths of your laps!

5.  Two weeks ago....I had a similar problem while trying to install a
new BRD wheel we were testing.  It wasn't the steering pot....it was a
"button" that would just fire off at will.....with no rhyme or reason.
Bottom line on the source of this problem = bad analogue game controller
port on the SB Live card.  For $50....I didn't bother to go through the
RMA process to return it....but I installed that card in one other
computer to insure that was the problem....and yep.....it did the same
thing in the second computer (which had a TM NAS Pro analogue wheel).
So, this is a real possibility.

6.  The admonition on the IRQ assignments below is one to be taken
seriously.  In fact, with an SB Live card.....if it is not on IRQ 5 or
9.......they can act up (among other things....the sound can get
scratchy...and the gameport doesn't hold its voltage correctly).  Of
course, the SB Live must be on its own IRQ not sharing with any other
device (you got that one I figure)......but did you know you can free up
an IRQ by disabling the SB Live DOS drivers?  If you don't play DOS
games....then you don't need the DOS drivers installed and they are
taking a valuable IRQ for absolutely no reason at all!  Reinstall the SB
Live drivers to remove the DOS (use custom install).....then go to
Device Manager after you've done this....and disable the DOS drivers
(which will still show in Device Mgr even though you just reinstalled
the SB Live drivers "without" the DOS drivers....go figure...just trust
me....disable it in Dev Mgr.....and you'll see that the IRQ assigned to
the DOS drivers in the System Info screen....is gone!).

Goy...if I think of anything else....I'll email you.

Sorry for the long post.  Hope you get this one solved........its no
good to have a controller jump around....without notice.  Means you are
always "anticipating" it happening....which will slow you down a lot!
Of course, how fast do you have to go if you are racing guys like Dave
Henrie?  ....lol.....

(Just kidding, Dave!)

Regards,

Tom

Ok, this I didn't know, and no, I haven't, league race is coming up on
Sat morning (5 am or so my time) though, so a reinstall will have to
wait until after that, but I'll consider it if it keeps acting up on me
and it's noted for future reference....

Well, I usually stay well clear of wires and stuff, but this time I did
the wiring myself as I just reused the TM wiring, and since my TM wheel
worked like a charm before we scrapped it for parts, I figured the
wiring would be ok

I have removed, reinstalled and recalibrated to the point where I can
stand the sight of those screens anymore, even removed those .cgf
(controls.cfg (?) and another one) files from N3, still no worky with
Papy drivers

Well, when we made this wheel, we used all the wiring from my old TM
Nascar PRO wheel, including the Pot, then this problem developed last
spring and I thought the pot had gone bad, no pots to be found locally,
or through my usual suppliers for the shop or anything, but I had a
spare TM Nascar PRO wheel lying about that had been rebuilt with new
pots and such last winter and scrapped that one for parts as well, but
the problem is exactly the same as before, and that wheel WAS working
properly

Well, running a computer shop has it's advantages :-), so I have
actually tried 3 different cards now, my original "old" SB Live 256 card
and two newer SB Live 1024 cards so I know they are from different
"batches", same problem

Ok, I didn't know this either, I never install the DOS drivers, learnt
that lesson back on TEN with N2, it sounded horribly :-) and gave lots
of troubles, my SB Live is currently using IRQ 4 I think (I'll have to
check when I get to the shop tomorrow) but it's not sharing IRQ and I
have no sound problem, I'll see if I can get it moved to 5 though, I try
to steer clear of 9 if at all possible.....

Thx

ROFL

Well every now and then a long post is in order, and when trying to help
me, I don't mind at all, and yes, it sucks sitting there waiting for it
jerk right on me, especially when it's an online league, I don't want to
take out my fellow racers either

As for the guys I'm racing with, they vary a great deal in speed, but
they have one thing in common, they are the cleanest racers you'll ever
come across, and whenever something happens on the track, as it does
every now and then no matter how much you try to be considerate, there's
never a bad word, as soon as something happens, you'll see;

"I'm so sorry, that was totally my bad"

"No problem, racing incident"

Then a few quick exchanges of "I'm sorry's" in the mailing list
afterwards, and it's been like this from day 1, best bunch I've ever
raced with, and that even includes Dave H actually, and this is why I'm
returning really, it's worth getting up at 4 am on a Sat to race with
these guys, Imola is up this weekend, should be a blast

Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

http://www.theuspits.com
http://www.teammirage.com

"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke"
--Groucho Marx--

And Dave......I'm slow too.  So, your "line" about having the slow guys
around to kick......has been used by me many, many times already!
Nobody I ever cared to race with had any other "beef" than making sure
you drive a clean race.....and keep adequate space for online warping,
etc.  They give trophies for where you finish....not how fast you
drove....then crashed.

I read a funny-but-true line the other day....I think it was on Speedway
Illustrated's site....its appropriate to this string's topic (I think):

(Paraphrased)....."When you make a mistake in racing.....you most often
not only take yourself out of the race, but one or more of your
competitors too!  Its kind of like playing golf......but with the
exception of when you hit your ball out of bounds, your opponent gets
the two stroke penalty!"

......lol....I love that one.......and, oh but....how true!

Have fun you guys....

Regards,

Tom

--
Greg31